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While upstate NY is beautiful [for that matter, so was Lon Guyland, before they ruined it], fact is, if you live in NY, you pay for NYC (even if you've never been there) in taxes and liberal politics [which not only restricts your freedom, but which increases the cost of doing business in NY and thus makes everything more expensive for the consumer- not to mention the outrageous fees of things like the DMV ).
Lets face it- 90% of what goes on in Albany is about NYC.
I've never seen a state that contains so many of the nations top income earners and has such high taxes, yet is perpetually crying "austerity!". (I even lived in dysfunctional CA. for a year, and even it was a breath of fresh air compared to NY!)
Personally, all else being equal, I couldn't deal with those long, cold, snowy winters of upstate.
Another thing I have noticed about upstate, is that there are very few functional small towns. There are cities (and half of them are dysfunctional and dying- like Buffalo)...but something has killed off small town and rural life in NY (the politics!), because every time I ever went up there, I'd always drive through these towns where the only activity seemed to be around the four or five bars, which seemed to be the only viable businesses on the main st.- Every town seems to have at least four or five bars (no matter how small the town) and at least one dirty book/video store, along with a bunch of decrepit buildings and seedy-looking characters milling around.
Agriculture seems to be an after-thought in NY. After living here in KY for 9 years, I've seen what viable agriculture looks like, and how you can't help but notice it's activities in the life of the towns.....but in NY, one just sees vestiges of that activity. (I wouldn't doubt it if tractors have to be registered and insured in NY just to drive down the street!)
And no, the cooling costs in the South are not commensurate with the heating costs upstate. We have a good four months here of 90-degree weather in the summer- and summer electric bills have never been higher than $80. My highest winter bill (electric heat) has been $150- and that was just last month in this unusually cold and snowy winter.
I wouldn't doubt it if the average homeowner upstate pays $800-$900 a month on heating and electricity.
The ONLY way to live cheaply in NY....is to be on welfare and/or in "public" housing.
And no, the cooling costs in the South are not commensurate with the heating costs upstate. We have a good four months here of 90-degree weather in the summer- and summer electric bills have never been higher than $80. My highest winter bill (electric heat) has been $150- and that was just last month in this unusually cold and snowy winter.
Kentucky really isn't the "south" nor is it a place that NYers are flocking to. I'm not putting Kentucky down just pointing out that your comparison really isn't comparable to the places most NYers are moving to. People moving to Atlanta, Florida, Phoenix, Texas & Vegas are going to see a much different kind of heat (and much higher electric bills for A/C) than what you see in Kentucky. In Texas my A/C basically ran non stop from early May until late October, you really didn't want to see what that electric bill looked like. Here in NY my heating bill is only what I would consider high in January & February. I don't have nor do I need A/C so in the summer my electric bill is minimal. From April - October the only time I even use natural gas is when using the stove, dryer or hot water as my furnace rarely needs to kick on to heat up the house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronkonkomoan
I wouldn't doubt it if the average homeowner upstate pays $800-$900 a month on heating and electricity.
If someone is paying that much they have serious problems. In the spring, summer & early fall my combined bills might be a little over $100 at most (and they are usually under $100). In the dead of winter (Jan-Feb) they might be $150-$225 combined.
Kentucky really isn't the "south" nor is it a place that NYers are flocking to. I'm not putting Kentucky down just pointing out that your comparison really isn't comparable to the places most NYers are moving to. People moving to Atlanta, Florida, Phoenix, Texas & Vegas are going to see a much different kind of heat (and much higher electric bills for A/C) than what you see in Kentucky. In Texas my A/C basically ran non stop from early May until late October, you really didn't want to see what that electric bill looked like. Here in NY my heating bill is only what I would consider high in January & February. I don't have nor do I need A/C so in the summer my electric bill is minimal. From April - October the only time I even use natural gas is when using the stove, dryer or hot water as my furnace rarely needs to kick on to heat up the house.
If someone is paying that much they have serious problems. In the spring, summer & early fall my combined bills might be a little over $100 at most (and they are usually under $100). In the dead of winter (Jan-Feb) they might be $150-$225 combined.
Great points and plenty of small towns are doing just fine in Upstate NY. While the cities have seen better days in some aspects, they still have a lot to offer.
Great points and plenty of small towns are doing just fine in Upstate NY. While the cities have seen better days in some aspects, they still have a lot to offer.
What I have found to be interesting is how Buffalo, Rochester & even Syracuse get so much bad press yet they have some of the nicest suburbs around (which you never hear about). They have towns that are full of character with vibrant, walkable downtown areas unlike many of the sprawling areas of endless subdivisions that pass for suburbs in the recent growth areas of the south & west. If you come visit these cities & all you are looking for is the bad it can easily be found but there is a lot of good as well that few people ever want to talk about.
Kentucky really isn't the "south" nor is it a place that NYers are flocking to. I'm not putting Kentucky down just pointing out that your comparison really isn't comparable to the places most NYers are moving to. People moving to Atlanta, Florida, Phoenix, Texas & Vegas are going to see a much different kind of heat (and much higher electric bills for A/C) than what you see in Kentucky. In Texas my A/C basically ran non stop from early May until late October, you really didn't want to see what that electric bill looked like. Here in NY my heating bill is only what I would consider high in January & February. I don't have nor do I need A/C so in the summer my electric bill is minimal. From April - October the only time I even use natural gas is when using the stove, dryer or hot water as my furnace rarely needs to kick on to heat up the house.
If someone is paying that much they have serious problems. In the spring, summer & early fall my combined bills might be a little over $100 at most (and they are usually under $100). In the dead of winter (Jan-Feb) they might be $150-$225 combined.
You're right about the places most other NYers are moving to- which is exactly why I sought out a place to which they weren't moving to en masse. But we do run our A/C here from late April/early May to mid October (and I lived all of my life in NY without ever even having A/C).
It sounds as though you are not from NY though- as you don't seem to realize the cost of heating there. My friend on Long Island (where it's a lot warmer than upstate) pays $500 a month for earl (oil) to heat his not-big three bedroom house....and doesn't keep it that warm, and supplements with wood. every form of energy is expensive in NY. Before moving, I lived in a studio apartment, with no A/C, and basically just used an electric stove, lights and computer...and my electric bill was $50 a month- and that was 10 years ago.
unlike many of the sprawling areas of endless subdivisions that pass for suburbs in the recent growth areas of the south & west..
That's very true. A lot of these towns that grew up since the 70's, are just abominations- seas of parking lots and chain/box stores; they all look alike...no character. If you've been to one, you've been to 'em all. It's really disgusting...and the places that aren't like that, are trying to become like that, as the idjit who live there think that having an Applebee's and an iHop are height of gracious living and the keys to success.
It's pathetic. In the shopping town near me (Glasgow, KY.), they started fringe developement in the late 70's, driving out all of the good old department stores and other downtown businesses by building a bypass. Walmart moved in...and after a few years abandoned it's fist building, leaving to decay for decades, and moving to a new building across the street...then recently, it again moved further to the fringe of town, when a new bypass was built to bypass the old bypass. So first, the downtown was abandoned, and now the old bypass business area is being abandoned...and this seems to happen in these towns every 15-20 years...it's just like they wear out one locale and just pick up and do the same thing a mile further out, and the cycle just keeps repeating.
You're right about the places most other NYers are moving to- which is exactly why I sought out a place to which they weren't moving to en masse. But we do run our A/C here from late April/early May to mid October (and I lived all of my life in NY without ever even having A/C).
It sounds as though you are not from NY though- as you don't seem to realize the cost of heating there. My friend on Long Island (where it's a lot warmer than upstate) pays $500 a month for earl (oil) to heat his not-big three bedroom house....and doesn't keep it that warm, and supplements with wood. every form of energy is expensive in NY. Before moving, I lived in a studio apartment, with no A/C, and basically just used an electric stove, lights and computer...and my electric bill was $50 a month- and that was 10 years ago.
I think you're talking NYC metro & LI (which I admittedly have no idea regarding heating costs there) & Im talking about Upstate. Ive lived in NNY & WNY for about 7 years now & have a very good idea what my heating has cost (especially in the arctic circle of Northern NY). I've never been anywhere near $800-900/month & in my time in NY Ive never lived in anything less than maybe 1000 sq ft, so its not like Ive been living in small places that are easy to heat.
I think you're talking NYC metro & LI (which I admittedly have no idea regarding heating costs there) & Im talking about Upstate. Ive lived in NNY & WNY for about 7 years now & have a very good idea what my heating has cost (especially in the arctic circle of Northern NY). I've never been anywhere near $800-900/month & in my time in NY Ive never lived in anything less than maybe 1000 sq ft, so its not like Ive been living in small places that are easy to heat.
That's interesting. Admittedly, I've never lived upstate- but I doubt that the price of oil, gas or electricity could be so much cheaper up there than downstate (O-K, maybe electricity...)- and considering the long cold winters up there.....
I can only imagine, as I'm sitting here in southern KY. with 4" of snow on the ground...one of my vehicles stuck a quarter of the way up my 600' driveway and it being 25 degrees out....... (And I thought I was getting away from this when I moved? LOL!)
Fuel mostly costs the same everywhere, except in NY with the massive taxes which are the same Up or Down state.
I must say 800-900 a Month would have to be leaving a window open or something.
Nobody can give you even a ballpark number but my SWAG is between 100 and 400. Modern furnaces are crazy efficient but most of Upstate houses are very old and poor so most likely the furnaces are pretty old also. City-data shows about 50% of the houses in this area being built before 1930 and almost all the rest pre-1980 so its a safe bet zero insulation, bad windows and old furnaces lead to the high costs.
The ugly little suburbs around Syracuse are full of little boxes made of ticky-tacky but you can prolly heat them with a light bulb.
Myself I have 1600 sq/ft with NG heat, great windows and a craptastic furnace and it costs me about 150$ in December/January/February . I will admitt I keep it colder then most people would at 48 during the nite and daytime with 60 during the evenings.
What I have found to be interesting is how Buffalo, Rochester & even Syracuse get so much bad press yet they have some of the nicest suburbs around (which you never hear about). They have towns that are full of character with vibrant, walkable downtown areas unlike many of the sprawling areas of endless subdivisions that pass for suburbs in the recent growth areas of the south & west. If you come visit these cities & all you are looking for is the bad it can easily be found but there is a lot of good as well that few people ever want to talk about.
There are plenty of walkable downtowns in the southern metros too. And there is plenty of sprawl in the suburbs of places like buffalo and syracuse.
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