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I always question the National Rankings because the first few dozen schools are mostly magnet/specialty schools which are only taking the top x% of candidates, how can they fail.
Actually Niche, who do publish their criteria and go way beyond SAT and AP/ IB involvement, have been shaking up the rankings because they give a much more holistic view of the school. That's why people are panicking here and holding up the hem of their skirts on the results for Bay Shore and Brooklyn Tech. Ha!! US News uses a much less sophisticated algorithm, which due its IB focus has high schools in Yonkers coming out fantastically. Its not comparable, it was a "Benchmark" because it was really the only one available that ranked across the country. You've got it upside down, US News rankings aren't worth much at all. They are about as esteemed as the newspaper itself nowadays.
Show us a better ranking methodology and we will talk (not that one can't be made, this is just the best so far). Otherwise the subjective what one guy on the internet thinks ranking or the 1-dimensional academic score only ranking.... no thanks.
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Originally Posted by bg7
Actually Niche, who do publish their criteria and go way beyond SAT and AP/ IB involvement, have been shaking up the rankings because they give a much more holistic view of the school. That's why people are panicking here and holding up the hem of their skirts on the results for bay Shore and Brooklyn Tech. Ha!! US News uses a much less sophisticated algorithm, which due its IB focus has high schools in Yonkers coming out fantastically. Its not comparable, it was a
"Benchmark" because it was really the only one available that ranked across the countr. You've got it upside down, US News rankings aren't worth much at all. They are about as esteemed as the newspaper itself nowadays.
Show us a better ranking methodology and we will talk (not that one can't be made, this is just the best so far). Otherwise the subjective what one guy on the internet thinks ranking or the 1-dimensional academic score only ranking.... no thanks.
This is the first time I have ever heard/seen Niche ever mentioned. As for the Holistic view that is definitely outside the main stream as a measurement standard. Regardless of who makes the list I normally eliminate the top 20-30 because they are magnet/specialty schools who get to pick the top percentage of attendees. Not really a fair representation of student performance.
"The company ranked 14,431 high schools based on dozens of educational measures and opinion surveys filled out by 280,000 students and parents."
Some of the measures of "educational value" seem quirky to me.... and opinions by students and parents? Seems biased
OK, besides the fact that you've just made up your own term and then ascribed it to Niche, Niche makes it clear that the rankings are based on "educational measuresand opinion surveys."
Again, the rankings aren't simply SAT achievement. They are more comprehensive. Student culture is important, the support that students get and have at a school, sporting participation, extracirricular support and facilities, etc etc. Plenty of schools have students who are disappointed in the what the school provides and parents who are pissed ... it cuts both ways in the opinion surveys. A school's culture is important to many parents when choosing to send their kids there. How does one quantify something as amorphous and intangible as that ... what is your suggestion?
This is the first time I have ever heard/seen Niche ever mentioned. As for the Holistic view that is definitely outside the main stream as a measurement standard. Regardless of who makes the list I normally eliminate the top 20-30 because they are magnet/specialty schools who get to pick the top percentage of attendees. Not really a fair representation of student performance.
It's interesting that while a small weight is given to the level of affluence at schools (using the student/free lunch data as a proxy for family income) I wonder how the rankings would change about which high schools are successful if that weighting were changed.
Right now, Niche methodology calls it better if a school's students are closer to the nat'l level of poverty. But wouldn't it tell us more about a school if the methodology gave greater positive weight to poorer schools, and less to those in affluent suburbs? Since school performance is highly correlated with family income, I'd call schools that did well with a poorer groups of students better (higher-ranking) than those with similar academic cred in the wealthy Westchester and Long Island suburbs.
It's interesting that while a small weight is given to the level of affluence at schools (using the student/free lunch data as a proxy for family income) I wonder how the rankings would change about which high schools are successful if that weighting were changed.
Right now, Niche methodology calls it better if a school's students are closer to the nat'l level of poverty. But wouldn't it tell us more about a school if the methodology gave greater positive weight to poorer schools, and less to those in affluent suburbs? Since school performance is highly correlated with family income, I'd call schools that did well with a poorer groups of students better (higher-ranking) than those with similar academic cred in the wealthy Westchester and Long Island suburbs.
I think you are on to something and that is why knowing what the criteria used is important. I believe that you may see more urban magnet schools or certain suburbs would be on the list if the criteria you mentioned was used.
I will say that some high level schools weren't on this list.
Stuyvesant-Bronx Science-Brooklyn Tech will always be the top 3 in many people's minds, regardless of these rankings. Hunter and Townsend Harris are pretty good, too.
Mick
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