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Old 10-14-2021, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Putnam Valley, NY
180 posts, read 214,675 times
Reputation: 421

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Quote:
Originally Posted by homestead123 View Post
PV here too. Neighbors!!!
Hey Neighbor! I'm on Oscawana. Love it here, love lake life.
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Old 10-15-2021, 08:29 AM
 
973 posts, read 1,410,510 times
Reputation: 1647
In Westchester and Rockland, from what I have seen, its almost 100% no masks. My travels also take me throughout suburban NJ and its the same there, and I recently spent some time in the Philadelphia suburbs and in the Allentown/Bethlehem area and it was the same. The exception is the Apple store (lol), which requires masks.

As everyone knows, the coronavirus is an upper respiratory virus, as is the flu, other already existing coronaviruses, and other viruses which cause cold-like symptoms. These viruses gain entry primarily through the nasal passages. Because of the way our bodies are designed, we have a diminished ability to respond to viruses that enter this way. This is not a flaw that evolution needed to take care of, because viruses that infect this area only cause minor symptoms. It's once they grow and spread to other areas that they can become an existential threat. Luckily, this is where our response is much stronger.

What this all means is that the coronavirus is here to stay - forever. Vaccines will not eliminate it. Nor will masks. But, a combination of vaccines and acquired immunity will render it largely a nasal/upper respiratory infection - other wise known as a cold. It will spread widely and continuously, infecting people's nasal passages. People will suffer minor cold-like symptoms (or none at all), while spreading it to others. The body will them stamp out the infection rather efficiently, and you will move on with your life.

As this relates to masks, my fear is that mask wearing will cause more harm than good in the long term. A basic understanding of the immune system is helpful. It consists of two different functionalities. One can be viewed as your generic immune system. This system fights an infection, but only when the infection has gained entry, multiplied, and is starting to cause some symptoms (usually). The other system is our antibodies, and this is more of a rapid, but specific, response system that fights an invader upon entry. However, this later system requires the body to "recognize" the virus. If it doesn't, it ignores it, as if it belongs. A virus can only be recognized if our body has already encountered and fought it in the past.

Evolution has provided us with a great generic immune systems when we are children. This is because children are constantly encountering viruses that are new to them. So they need a great generic system to fight these initial infections that are happening all the time. Children with weak generic systems don't live long enough to pass on their genes to subsequent generations, hence, over time, we have evolved where essentially all children have these great systems. This is why children often have runny and stuffed up noses (mild cold symptoms) but don't often get significantly sick. They are constantly encountering viruses that are new to them. Without antibodies, an initial infection is developed through the nasal area. But when that infection wants to spread to other areas (like the lungs), the child's generic systems knock it out.

Our generic system weakens as we age, but this is ok, because our antibody system has been built up over time due to numerous contacts with the many viruses that are in our environment. Evolution has not needed to change the fact that our generic system weakens as we age, because we have already passed on our genes before this weakening gains significant steam, and in any event, our antibody system has grown in ability with age.

The problem with masks is that it may be diminishing exposures to the coronavirus (and other viruses) for kids and non-elderly adults, such that when these people become elderly, they may not have the antibodies necessary to survive a meaningful exposure. Look at a healthy 50 year old. Not overweight, eats well, exercises, and has no real health problems. This person's generic system is still good (not as good as when he or she was a kid, but still good). They also have a large arsenal of antibodies, because they have 5 decades of exposures. But this person is coming up on years when their generic system will start to nose dive. The last thing this person needs is for their antibody systems to fall short. Ten years with masks and now this person is in their 60s. Their antibodies may not be where they need them to be because they haven't been encountering many viruses in recent times. When they get a significant exposure when the mask is down their body may not recognize it because they haven't seen it in ten years.

Same thing with kids at school. Getting exposed to a large number of viruses through their school years is probably necessary to build up a solid base of antibodies. The base needed to stop viruses upon entry when their generic systems start to diminish in adulthood. This won't happen if they are all masked up.

The coronavirus was bad because it was brand new, rather dangerous as far as upper respiratory viruses are concerned, and very transmittable. Older people and people with weaker systems because of other reasons did not have antibodies (no one did) and did not have a good enough generic system. Now that we have the vaccine, this has changed quite a bit. But natural exposures are needed also. Not just for the coronavirus but for the countless other upper respiratory viruses out there. There is no such thing as a mask that only works for the novel coronavirus. Even if annual (or bi-annual) shots, similar to flu shots, are sufficient to have maximum antibodies, we are still not developing antibodies for every other virus out there if we are wearing masks and/or not living life normally.

As an aside, reliance on "the numbers" is misleading. The human race has never before tested for an upper respiratory virus on any where near this large of a scale. We have no base line. It's intellectually dishonest to look at COVID positive numbers and draw any conclusions, other than in comparison to other COVID positive numbers. Every single time my kid had a cold I am sure I would have tested positive if: a) a test existed for whatever virus caused the cold; b) i cared to get a test even though I had no symptoms.

Get the vaccine if you want to, take the masks off, and live your life like it is 2019 again.
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Old 10-16-2021, 09:43 AM
 
10,178 posts, read 11,162,884 times
Reputation: 20928
I was just in Putnam CO a few days ago, visiting Family(Carmel).

Hardly anyone is Masking. Compared to a last year - It was a relief.

I went to the Resorts World Casino - No Mask Mandate.
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Old 10-19-2021, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
3,973 posts, read 5,766,948 times
Reputation: 4733
Interesting observations. I wanted to visit the Hudson Valley this year but never got to it so I'll wait until next Spring or Fall to visit. I still wear masks indoors and often in crowded outdoor places like busy downtowns but not in wide open outdoor places like parks or quiet streets. I'll probably look every part the outsider to the locals with my mask on I guess.
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Old 10-20-2021, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,916 posts, read 24,345,683 times
Reputation: 39038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Interesting observations. I wanted to visit the Hudson Valley this year but never got to it so I'll wait until next Spring or Fall to visit. I still wear masks indoors and often in crowded outdoor places like busy downtowns but not in wide open outdoor places like parks or quiet streets. I'll probably look every part the outsider to the locals with my mask on I guess.
I don't think anyone would look at you askance. In my opinion, people in the HV are not wearing masks because they are rule followers, in general.

Right now, the rule is that if you are vaccinated and there is no mandate, you don't have to wear masks. So the largely vaccinated population is not wearing masks. It is not so much a snubbing of mask wearing as it is a manifestation of the consensus on the rules.

There are always outliers, of course. And I see occasional mask wearers, even in relatively conservative Dutchess County.
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Old 10-30-2021, 10:34 AM
 
956 posts, read 1,207,314 times
Reputation: 978
Quote:
Originally Posted by 987ABC View Post
In Westchester and Rockland, from what I have seen, its almost 100% no masks. My travels also take me throughout suburban NJ and its the same there, and I recently spent some time in the Philadelphia suburbs and in the Allentown/Bethlehem area and it was the same. The exception is the Apple store (lol), which requires masks.

As everyone knows, the coronavirus is an upper respiratory virus, as is the flu, other already existing coronaviruses, and other viruses which cause cold-like symptoms. These viruses gain entry primarily through the nasal passages. Because of the way our bodies are designed, we have a diminished ability to respond to viruses that enter this way. This is not a flaw that evolution needed to take care of, because viruses that infect this area only cause minor symptoms. It's once they grow and spread to other areas that they can become an existential threat. Luckily, this is where our response is much stronger.

What this all means is that the coronavirus is here to stay - forever. Vaccines will not eliminate it. Nor will masks. But, a combination of vaccines and acquired immunity will render it largely a nasal/upper respiratory infection - other wise known as a cold. It will spread widely and continuously, infecting people's nasal passages. People will suffer minor cold-like symptoms (or none at all), while spreading it to others. The body will them stamp out the infection rather efficiently, and you will move on with your life.

As this relates to masks, my fear is that mask wearing will cause more harm than good in the long term. A basic understanding of the immune system is helpful. It consists of two different functionalities. One can be viewed as your generic immune system. This system fights an infection, but only when the infection has gained entry, multiplied, and is starting to cause some symptoms (usually). The other system is our antibodies, and this is more of a rapid, but specific, response system that fights an invader upon entry. However, this later system requires the body to "recognize" the virus. If it doesn't, it ignores it, as if it belongs. A virus can only be recognized if our body has already encountered and fought it in the past.

Evolution has provided us with a great generic immune systems when we are children. This is because children are constantly encountering viruses that are new to them. So they need a great generic system to fight these initial infections that are happening all the time. Children with weak generic systems don't live long enough to pass on their genes to subsequent generations, hence, over time, we have evolved where essentially all children have these great systems. This is why children often have runny and stuffed up noses (mild cold symptoms) but don't often get significantly sick. They are constantly encountering viruses that are new to them. Without antibodies, an initial infection is developed through the nasal area. But when that infection wants to spread to other areas (like the lungs), the child's generic systems knock it out.

Our generic system weakens as we age, but this is ok, because our antibody system has been built up over time due to numerous contacts with the many viruses that are in our environment. Evolution has not needed to change the fact that our generic system weakens as we age, because we have already passed on our genes before this weakening gains significant steam, and in any event, our antibody system has grown in ability with age.

The problem with masks is that it may be diminishing exposures to the coronavirus (and other viruses) for kids and non-elderly adults, such that when these people become elderly, they may not have the antibodies necessary to survive a meaningful exposure. Look at a healthy 50 year old. Not overweight, eats well, exercises, and has no real health problems. This person's generic system is still good (not as good as when he or she was a kid, but still good). They also have a large arsenal of antibodies, because they have 5 decades of exposures. But this person is coming up on years when their generic system will start to nose dive. The last thing this person needs is for their antibody systems to fall short. Ten years with masks and now this person is in their 60s. Their antibodies may not be where they need them to be because they haven't been encountering many viruses in recent times. When they get a significant exposure when the mask is down their body may not recognize it because they haven't seen it in ten years.

Same thing with kids at school. Getting exposed to a large number of viruses through their school years is probably necessary to build up a solid base of antibodies. The base needed to stop viruses upon entry when their generic systems start to diminish in adulthood. This won't happen if they are all masked up.

The coronavirus was bad because it was brand new, rather dangerous as far as upper respiratory viruses are concerned, and very transmittable. Older people and people with weaker systems because of other reasons did not have antibodies (no one did) and did not have a good enough generic system. Now that we have the vaccine, this has changed quite a bit. But natural exposures are needed also. Not just for the coronavirus but for the countless other upper respiratory viruses out there. There is no such thing as a mask that only works for the novel coronavirus. Even if annual (or bi-annual) shots, similar to flu shots, are sufficient to have maximum antibodies, we are still not developing antibodies for every other virus out there if we are wearing masks and/or not living life normally.

As an aside, reliance on "the numbers" is misleading. The human race has never before tested for an upper respiratory virus on any where near this large of a scale. We have no base line. It's intellectually dishonest to look at COVID positive numbers and draw any conclusions, other than in comparison to other COVID positive numbers. Every single time my kid had a cold I am sure I would have tested positive if: a) a test existed for whatever virus caused the cold; b) i cared to get a test even though I had no symptoms.

Get the vaccine if you want to, take the masks off, and live your life like it is 2019 again.
This has to be one of the best write-ups I have seen on this forum about COVID. Very common sense approach and not making it political. Some people think COVID means stay inside for years but then there is a large swath of people who refuse to see COVID being serious cause of politics. It's a health issue and treat it as such which is why I love what you wrote.
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