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Two things to consider: Patterson made mention that Albany relies on 30% of its tax revenues coming from Wall Street ALONE.
Secondly..in the modern world, I'm not sure severing ties with upstate NY is going to help much. Yes, Watertown and Ithaca are doing very well...but most of the other big cities are part of the rust belt and are searching for something to revitialize them. Lets face it..even if NYC and their mandates are lifted off upstates tax rolls, do you REALLY think your tax rates are going to drop? Much of the industry is gone...and I know the local politicos are just as fiscally irresponsible and corrupt as anywhere. Eroding business bases and municipal drunken sailor spending (yes...pensions too) are what really need to be addressed up there if they secede. Upstate has a much bigger problem than what NYC "imposes" upon them....
It is mostly things that you don't see. Here is one...http://www.13wham.com/news/local/sto...e-6fe640d55149...half a billion dollars in tax money building the new Yankee Stadium. I believe they are getting a billion or so for a new subway line as well. Another thing I believe is true is that upstate NY electricity bills should be dirt cheap because Niagara Falls is right here, but instead the state regulates that the power gets sent to NYC, raising prices. Add in the garbage and convicts sent to upstate without the payment restitution that would be in effect if it were a state-to-state deal. Finally, taxes are one of the biggest reasons that upstate is struggling and with more local power to control that, it could be fixed.
It is mostly things that you don't see. Here is one...Yankee Subsidies Hit Taxpayers, Fans - 13WHAM.com...half a billion dollars in tax money building the new Yankee Stadium. I believe they are getting a billion or so for a new subway line as well. Another thing I believe is true is that upstate NY electricity bills should be dirt cheap because Niagara Falls is right here, but instead the state regulates that the power gets sent to NYC, raising prices. Add in the garbage and convicts sent to upstate without the payment restitution that would be in effect if it were a state-to-state deal. Finally, taxes are one of the biggest reasons that upstate is struggling and with more local power to control that, it could be fixed.
Very good points Rochacha... would totally rep you but I CD won't let me... I didn't even think about the trash situation... and the WM Dump is sitting in MY BACKYARD! When I moved to Fairport as a kid is was a little hole in the ground... now it is on it's way to becoming a mountain of refuse...and it isn't all Rochester's trash...
Very good points Rochacha... would totally rep you but I CD won't let me... I didn't even think about the trash situation... and the WM Dump is sitting in MY BACKYARD! When I moved to Fairport as a kid is was a little hole in the ground... now it is on it's way to becoming a mountain of refuse...and it isn't all Rochester's trash...
I rep'd them for you!
I don't even live in New York but find this an interesting thread.
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Originally Posted by bls5555
I rep'd them for you!
I don't even live in New York but find this an interesting thread.
Same here but from reading this and other posts I see similar patterns.
In Virginia we receive a large part of NY's trash. It's a commodity and the countys that receive it made that decision,overall the income has been a big benefit to them. Many in the state hate it but how would they feel if the Western States wouldn't take our Nuclear Waste?
For us Northern Virginia seems to suck all the resources and monies that the state has available, anyone in the more agrarian western county's would feel they are being robbed to support the urban north. We also have large factory farms that are a blight to the area but who approved it? If the community leaders don't allow the zoning it won't occure but many see the income as a bonus that can't be overlooked.
I think most states have a line where economic differences create these feelings. With upstate NY losing the bulk of it's traditional industries it's like Walmart coming to town and those that remain are concerned how can they compete. How would upstate support themselves? The area is nice and tourism could be a major buisness but what would they live on? The work force is there but can are they willing to work for a fair wage with out unions? What can the 3 bigger cities do to become competitive again?
If upstate could create an economy that allow people to live not just exist then best to them! We also house our prisoners in rural area like most states and overall the communities like the income they provide. We really only have one power company and their rates are basically the same state wide, the state does keep a tight reign on them. For the record I grew up downstate although it was referred to as upstate. I left for a 20yr military career and couldn't afford to move back when I retired so I stayed in Virginia. Although jobs pay 1 1/2times more than here housing was 2 1/2 times more. I didn't consider a 60+ minute commute to be reasonable.
Many people upstate may be surprised to know that NY Metro sends BILLIONS upstate every year! Wall St and big companies fund the rust belt, not the other way around. Also, it takes far more infrastructure funds per capita in less populated areas because there are fewer tax payers there using it.
Having said that, policies that make sense downstate don't work upstate. Downstate politicians need to recognize that upstate will continue to suffer as long as the same policies are put into place for upstate and downstate. Companies that will pay high taxes to have NY headquarters are not going to pay high taxes in Syracuse just because Syracuse is in the same state as NYC.
Here are things NY start to do to turn itself around:
#1) Most important - NY needs to fight harder in D.C. for its fair share of funding. The state can't continue to pay far more than it receives. NY sends funds to poor southern states who then can keep their own taxes low and then attract northern residents. NY cities should hire lobbyists to get more funding and team up with other states that are in the same boat (CA,NJ,IL,CT,MA) in order to make people aware of this issue and shame the "welfare states".
#2) Upstate cities need to revitalize their downtown areas in order to help keep the young people from leaving. Having a vibrant downtown with RESIDENTS living there is key to a metro area. Young people aren't going to stay in an area to live the Wal-Mart lifestyle. They can live that lifestyle in an area with nicer weather and lower taxes. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE UPSTATE CITIES HISTORY AND WALKABILITY.
#3) Provide tax incentives to keep people and companies from moving to the NJ and CT suburbs. If this is not done the state/city will lose the tax money anyway!
#4) Develop a comprehensive plan for growing upstate tourism. Upstate NY has LOCATION on its side. There is no excuse for Niagara Falls not being a cash cow for upstate. Buffalo/Niagara region should be an extension of the "Golden Horshoe" instead of an extension of the "rust belt". Skiing and fall beauty are also not taken advantage of as much as it should. Being so close to the East Coast and Canada needs to be taken full advantage of. Developing high-speed rail from NY-Albany-Niagara Falls-Toronto would help.
#5) Build more affordable housing in the outer boroughs. Middle and lower class residents are leaving the city becuase they can't afford it. More housing will stabalize or lower housing costs.
#6) STATE UNITY! Improve communication between upstate and downstate. I'm originally from upstate and now live in NY and I can tell you neither side has a clue as to the other's problems or needs or a plan to fix them.
I really have to agree with Jaw...it isn't so much that OUR tax money goes down to FUND the NYC region..but rather the tax-heavy and business-unfriendly STATE MANDATED policies favor and work well for downstate while having a really huge negatie impact Upstate. It really isn't so much that one part of the state is "doing something" to the other...just that the policies of teh whole state work MUCH in the favor of downstate and even more in the disfavor (if that's a word?) for Upstate.
I really have to agree with Jaw...it isn't so much that OUR tax money goes down to FUND the NYC region..but rather the tax-heavy and business-unfriendly STATE MANDATED policies favor and work well for downstate while having a really huge negatie impact Upstate. It really isn't so much that one part of the state is "doing something" to the other...just that the policies of teh whole state work MUCH in the favor of downstate and even more in the disfavor (if that's a word?) for Upstate.
Oops thought deleting would wipe out what I had written as opposed to the entire post!
That written, I have to state that I agree with JawNY and I'minformed2.
NYS is too large for one size fits all government. What works in Caledonia isn't going to cut it in Flushing.
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When I moved to Fairport as a kid is was a little hole in the ground... now it is on it's way to becoming a mountain of refuse...and it isn't all Rochester's trash...
Things NY can start to do to turnaround
