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A separate yet intertwined occurrence in our area..the replacement of the cross state line(feeds lower NY) with the new millenium line. This line feeds NO gas to the southern tier. It was allowed as to increase gas supplies for downstate(what a shock..not). There also is the new high tension power line system that will also add to the(take a guess) availiable wattage for downstate customers. The exploration/drilling for gas is yet another separate topic. As a landowner trying to meet all my financial committments, I am not necessarily against this..but..it's a proceed CAREFULLY approach.
Don't know how much land you have, Tioga, or what the topography's like, but if you read honeychrome's post, then you know how invasive just laying down the pipes can be. Sure, if you had a couple hundred acres, it might make sense, but if you are living hear the consequences, it's something to consider carefully, as you said you were doing!
Don't know how much land you have, Tioga, or what the topography's like, but if you read honeychrome's post, then you know how invasive just laying down the pipes can be. Sure, if you had a couple hundred acres, it might make sense, but if you are living hear the consequences, it's something to consider carefully, as you said you were doing!
And there lies the trick. I've read stories of people who signed what they thought were good leases, but didn't have them looked over by their own lawyer, only to have a well head put right next to their house. I don't know this for sure, but it could possibly be better to sign a lease with a gas drilling company that you have a lawyer go over and add setback provisions, etc. than to refuse to sign and end up with access to your land forced on you by through 'compulsory integration,' depending on what protections are written into the 'compulsory integration' law.
And thanks for the kind words JustSayNo. Reading a lot and thinking is a curse of habit my parents imposed upon me. That and a deep understanding that the more I know the more I realize I don't know. But the finding out can be a lot of fun!
Hi all. I have been following the Marcellus gas drilling issue in NY and PA for several months now. I have done quite a bit of research on this issue, and the more I learn the more worried I become. This sort of drilling has already taken place in the Barnett Shale, in and around Ft. Worth, Texas. Even in an area that is accustomed to and generally accepting of gas and oil development, the shale gas drilling has created a lot of controversy and problems. It is *not* the same as conventional gas drilling.
My husband and I live in upstate NY. We moved here more than 20 years ago. We both have college educations and marketable skills, and we could have gone to many other locations, but we chose this place largely because of its beauty. I am a devoted gardener (I grow not only flowers, but a lot of our food as well). My husband and I both like to hike and canoe. My husband also enjoys riding his bike around on the rural roads. We have lovingly renovated a 110-year-old house (mostly with our own hands) and had planned to stay here for the rest of our days, but now, with this gas development looming, we are very afraid that this area will end up resembling an industrial zone. We have absolutely no desire to live in an a region that has large amounts of truck traffic, polluted water and air, noisy drilling operations and compressors, and access roads, pipelines and gathering lines snaking everywhere across the landscape. Our home is not large: it is quite modest. But we love it dearly and the thought of leaving it breaks our hearts. Yet if things get bad enough--if we can't stand the noise and destruction and the constant threat of pollution and industrial accidents--then we will be forced to leave.
We have already had a bit of a preview of what life in a gas field may be like. We live on a road that was used to access a section of the Millenium Pipeline during its construction. We had a **lot** of additional traffic past our house due to the pipeline. The month of July was the worst--there was a steady stream of huge trucks, and I mean **really** huge trucks, carrying tremendously long lengths of pipe and heavy machinery. These trucks ran around the clock, seven days a week. They were noisy enough to wake us up at night. On the worst day, there was a truck past here every ten minutes. (I started timing them one day when I became really disgusted because I was trying to play the piano and finally had to stop due to the frequent noise from the trucks, which was so load that I couldn't hear what I was playing.)
Many of the trucks that came past our house did not bother with the "Wide Load" cars that should have been accompanying them. When the trucks came around a sharp curve a few houses down from us, they habitually swung out into the other lane. I am still amazed that there were no accidents. Some of the trucks were clearly speeding; many of them tended to stall out on the hill just past our house and had to be restarted, generating a lot of noise. It was not pleasant. This was, fortunately, a temporary problem. But the trucks used to transport the drilling rigs are, evidently, tremendously large. And thousands of tanker trucks will be needed to transport water to wells that are being drilled and then take contaminated waste water away from those wells. I have read that drilling operations often continue all week long, day and night. These gas companies seem to believe that their activities should take precedence over all other human activities. Want to be able to get a good night's sleep before going to work? Too bad. Want to be able to take your child out for a safe bike ride on a country road that normally would have very little traffic? Too bad. Want to be able to enjoy a peaceful afternoon in your garden? Too bad again.
And the noise and traffic are just the tip of the iceberg: as others have noted, there are very serious concerns about the safety of the water supply. And, of course, habitat will be destroyed as trees are cut down and forest areas further fragmented. And the wells will require gathering lines to connect them to pipelines, and compressors to keep the gas flowing. And then there is the waste water, which will be polluted with chemicals--some of them carcinogenic. (The waste water from gas drilling operations is exempt from the Clean Water Act which normally protects the water supply.) As others here have noted, some of the waste water is likely to be radioactive, due to the same sources that cause the radon problem in our area.
After hearing some of the statements made by the NY DEC over the summer, I don't have much trust in their ability to properly oversee the Marcellus drilling. However, we have to work with what we have and we should push the DEC (and our local state reps!) to protect us as fully as possible. Back in August the DEC stopped issuing Marcellus permits pending an environmental review. They have recently issued a draft scope document of this review. I would highly suggest that anyone who is concerned about this issue take the time to download and read the DEC's draft scope document. The DEC is accepting input on this document via public hearings and written comments. I think they are scheduling one hearing per county. If at all possible, please try to attend your county's hearing and/or send your written comments to the DEC. The deadline for the written comments is December 15. To download the draft scope document & to see a schedule of the public hearings, please go to:
This is a very serious issue that will affect all of us. While some large landowners may benefit financially, most of us will see little or no financial gain from this drilling and some of us may even see the value of our homes go down if we are unfortunate enough to have a well in or near our neighborhoods. The best time to take action to limit the damage is now, before the drilling really gets started. The more people who contact their state reps and the DEC, the more likely the reps and DEC are to listen. If your rep seems unresponsive to your concerns, then please consider voting him/her out of office at the next opportunity.
Thanks for taking the time to read my long post! And please, remember to take a look at the DEC's draft scope document on gas drilling (at above link).
mbs7, thanks for your post and the link to the DEC draft scope. I'll have to read it after work, but after hearing the DEC commissioner on Capitol Connection a while back I have no faith at all the DEC will do anything that may adversely impact the interests of the gas companies. The calculus has been made that fueling downstate economic growth in the short-term outweighs upstate environmental concerns. The scary thing is that they are willing to risk the water supply of NYC in pursuit of some fast cash and energy- but maybe that is not considered a 'problem?' If NYC's water supply were to become compromised (or even the perception that it is so) a lot more bottled water would sell- more economic activity, more tax revenue. Cynical, maybe..
The last estimate I read was that there is potentially enough natural gas in the Marcellus Shale to meet all of the country's need for two years. These estimates are often inflated, but even if the play proves to contain that much natural gas, it ultimately isn't a tremendous amount. It will run out (of course not in two years, as this isn't the country's only source available, but probably in 5 or so years once production is at speed), then what? We're left with a damaged landscape and a poisoned water supply. A fair trade so we can keep our thermostats at 75˚ for a couple more years?
mbs7, thanks for your post and the link to the DEC draft scope. I'll have to read it after work, but after hearing the DEC commissioner on Capitol Connection a while back I have no faith at all the DEC will do anything that may adversely impact the interests of the gas companies. The calculus has been made that fueling downstate economic growth in the short-term outweighs upstate environmental concerns. The scary thing is that they are willing to risk the water supply of NYC in pursuit of some fast cash and energy- but maybe that is not considered a 'problem?' If NYC's water supply were to become compromised (or even the perception that it is so) a lot more bottled water would sell- more economic activity, more tax revenue. Cynical, maybe..
The last estimate I read was that there is potentially enough natural gas in the Marcellus Shale to meet all of the country's need for two years. These estimates are often inflated, but even if the play proves to contain that much natural gas, it ultimately isn't a tremendous amount. It will run out (of course not in two years, as this isn't the country's only source available, but probably in 5 or so years once production is at speed), then what? We're left with a damaged landscape and a poisoned water supply. A fair trade so we can keep our thermostats at 75˚ for a couple more years?
I agree completely, particularly with what you've said about the gas lasting for only 2 years. If you really want to get upset, consider the fact that natural gas accounts for only about 20% of U.S. energy usage, so if we were to try to power the entire country with gas from the Marcellus, that gas would last for about 24 months x .2 = 4.8 months. So for less than 5 months' worth of energy, we're willing to permanently trash a huge area of beautiful, valuable land. It doesn't even make good economic sense, much less good environmental sense. While a few poor people may benefit here and there, for the most part, the gas rush is going to move still more money into the hands of those who already have a lot of money (i.e. landowners with large tracts of land, gas company owners or shareholders). Poor and middle-class folks could end up being stuck in an area that is dotted with toxic waste sites and ruined landscapes. (Something else to consider: I've read that at least one company (Chesapeake) is looking into converting the gas to liquefied natural gas so that it can be shipped overseas, to countries where natural gas prices are higher than they are here.)
Unfortunately, many people feel powerless to stop the drilling. There are landowners who feel they must sign, since they are worried about being forced in anyway via compulsory integration. Others know their neighbors have signed and that they will be in the middle of the destruction in any case, so they feel they might as well sign and collect some cash. The system is set up to encourage people to sign, and the only way to prevent the drilling is to not sign! When you have a situation in which property owners feel they no longer have control of their property--when they feel that signing a lease is the only option--then something is very wrong. That is why, even though I have no great confidence in the DEC, I still think we need to make our views known to the DEC and to our state reps. If enough of us speak out, we will be hard to ignore. My husband and I may end up having to leave here, but we've worked hard for more than 20 years to build a life and a home that we love and we're not going to leave all that behind without a fight.
The NY state's environmental review document on gas drilling is fairly long--I am still working my way through the document, making notes as I go. Still, this is an issue that may end up having a very large effect on all of us for years to come, so reviewing the document and sending in comments on it is definitely a worthwhile thing to do--I'd like to sincerely thank anyone who has or is planning to take the time to do it! Again, the document can be downloaded at:
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NY State Gas Drilling Review
