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I myself would not waste my time going to Al Anon for support to learn how I need to deal with someone else's problem. That is why it best to walk away. There is no such thing as a person who is permanently in anyone's life period.
I agree. Al Anon is wallowing and for people who are helpless (they teach that in the 12 Steps). I would highly discourage you from getting sucked into that massive pity-party over a friend. It's not productive and it's another level of drama you don't need.
Tell her you love her and move on. It's not the old tough-love, it's pragmatic. You can't afford to invest any more time for her. She's a big girl and you are NOT her mother, which is why you don't need to spend time in Al Anon talking about her.
I'm pretty sure 99% of therapists, counselors, and any psychiatrist well versed in alcoholism would disagree with this statement. Walking away from a detrimental, self-destructive, codependent, enabling relationship is the best thing you can do to help yourself and the addict, especially if you love the person (and yourself! We shouldn't have to suffer because of someone else's actions), and allows for healing on both ends (the person cutting ties learns to establish healthy boundaries and the addict learns to cope with being forced to handle their own issues without someone else picking up the pieces for them).
To say that cutting ties has nothing to do with help, love, or healing is downright false.
I'm a counselor. I hope to hear the OP begins to nurture herself and jumps out of her friends fire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307
I disagree with the numerous people who encourage you to distance herself and let her find her own cure.
She does want to get well, she just can't. Not yet. But she is still your friend. Stand by her as long as you possibly can. There may come a day when you will be very happy that you did.
And I would hate for there to be a day when you say, "If only I had tried one more time......".
That's taking on way too much responsibility for another persons poor life choices. I'm not only a counselor, I've lived a life dealing with alcoholics and addicts in my family (as well as my ex husband). I've lost 3 friends/family members to it.
It's never our fault, and to insinuate that the OP may feel like she should help because she will regret it, is poor advice.
Perhaps what we are missing here is the fact that my life was not in the least disturbed by (let's call her Linda)'s actions.
Linda is the daughter of a neighbor, and I formed sort of an uncle-like relationship with her.
For some reason, Linda was able to speak openly and frankly with me - more so than she could with her parents, and especially her father. Perhaps the reason was precisely BECAUSE (as we say around here) I did not have a horse in that race.
In other words, my only interest was in Linda's well being. My only interest in the DUI's and arrests, and days when she went missing was the well-being of this young lady. I never paid bail, never had to pay for wrecked cars, etc...
I can see where you assumed I suffered in some way by being associated with Linda, but I can assure you I did not.
The OP seems to be involved with her young lady in a way very similar to the way I was with Linda. I think - and Linda never said this to me - what happened is that Linda saw a life style in us (my wife and me) that she wanted to emulate. So it gave her a goal of sorts.
You were lucky. Some of us didn't have the luxury of just offering a ear when needed to an addict. Some of us have suffered for DECADES with the fallout of their behavior. Until you've walked in those shoes, you are not qualified to tell others that walking away is wrong. Sometimes it's vital to self preservation. Sometimes either you walk away or let the addict drag you down with them. Your experience with addiction is like comparing the experience of war between the general sitting in his office and the guy in the trenches. Not even close.
I missed a call from her yesterday. Not sure if I should call her back or not.
I can't decide if I should react based on who I am or who she is.
I am a person who always tries to do the right thing. That's part of my dilemma. The right thing for my family is to cut ties and devote myself to them.
The person she is, I hate to say it, mostly a user. She kind of takes pride in her ability to manipulate people. But she was the one who encouraged me to go for the job that I recently got. She constantly told me that I was ready for the next step and that I had been underestimating myself. In retrospect, she was right.
I guess I'm part of the 1%.... but this doesn't seem possible since my peers also do not practice this philosophy as a first line response. ....
It's not so black and white like most everyone here is making it out to be.
POSITIVE BEHAVIOR REINFORCEMENT WORKS MUCH BETTER THAN NEGATIVE. (Eg, try "I'm so proud of you for keeping sober for 3 days this week. That's good progress. Let's celebrate by XYZ." vs, "You are such a losers for relapsing again! I'm cutting you out of my life!") What do YOU THINK would cause a relapse?
Everyone seems stuck in this "tough love" mentality from the 1980s and 90s. Didn't work then. Probably won't work now. It reminds me of another perpetuated myth that "all addicts NEED A 30 DAY RESIDENTIAL program." That's about as relevant as all this information about "cutting all ties" (ie, it works for less than half of addicts. Much less.)
And yes, I do have personal (as well as professional) experience with addicts.
The OP is asking for HELP TO HELP HER. She's made it clear that she wants to stay in her life.
As a first response, the "tough love"/cutting ties is extreme. No one would logically recommend that as a first response. Majority of those who have recommended cutting ties are doing so based on the OP's long history with enabling her friend. At that point, cutting ties is the best thing possible.
And who said anything about putting down an addict? Who said anything about saying "haha you suck for relapsing"?? I didn't see anyone encouraging that type of behavior. I stated it is completely reasonable to say "I'm sorry but I can't be in this toxic relationship anymore, please know I'm here for you when you are seriously clean and sober." It's called establishing healthy boundaries. It's a thing of today, not just the 80's and 90's
I missed a call from her yesterday. Not sure if I should call her back or not.
I can't decide if I should react based on who I am or who she is.
I am a person who always tries to do the right thing. That's part of my dilemma. The right thing for my family is to cut ties and devote myself to them.
The person she is, I hate to say it, mostly a user. She kind of takes pride in her ability to manipulate people. But she was the one who encouraged me to go for the job that I recently got. She constantly told me that I was ready for the next step and that I had been underestimating myself. In retrospect, she was right.
I think you already know the answer. Only you can cut ties when you are ready. It's hard. I know. I've been there. Time to give that time taken away from your family back to them- they don't deserve to suffer because of your alcoholic friend. You've paid your dues. You've been there to support her. Just because she gave good advice does not mean she is in a position to lead a healthy lifestyle. Until she is, she is only holding you back.
As a first response, the "tough love"/cutting ties is extreme. No one would logically recommend that as a first response. Majority of those who have recommended cutting ties are doing so based on the OP's long history with enabling her friend. At that point, cutting ties is the best thing possible.
And who said anything about putting down an addict? Who said anything about saying "haha you suck for relapsing"?? I didn't see anyone encouraging that type of behavior. I stated it is completely reasonable to say "I'm sorry but I can't be in this toxic relationship anymore, please know I'm here for you when you are seriously clean and sober." It's called establishing healthy boundaries. It's a thing of today, not just the 80's and 90's
Actually, the majority of people are projecting their own negative anecdotal experience with one or two addicts in their lives. Its inevitable that when you see a thread you have experience with that you will be compelled to comment. I have great sympathy for these people but the advice of "cut all ties" seems pretty extreme at this point and MANY responders are recommending it which of course makes it seem to readers like it the "right thing to do."
I'm using the "you suck for relapsing" example statement because many people DO say things close to that level of disgust and contempt AT LEAST ONCE in the course of the disease (yes, disease) out of pure frustration. Frankly, i know no one who hasent and I've even seen counselors do it. I've also said some pretty hostile and unhelpful things to some addicts in my family under stress. It's completely understandable but won't help the addict. The only way it "helps" is letting the person close to the addict let off some steam. Then *s/he* feels momentarily better but this does nothing to help the addict.
Many, or even most, convey this "youre a loser" mentality even more than once. Some "support systems" do it throughout the entire disease! Many also probably don't even realizing they are saying/implying it. I'm just gently trying to remind people that: 1. They may be doing so. 2. This won't help the addict. 3. Positive reinforcement in this disease usually works better than negative reinforcement or punishment.
Im all for "healthy boundaries." This seems to be one of the more popular psychological concepts of the new millennium. And so does the rise in selfishness and narcissism. Sometimes people tell themselves (and others) that they are practicing the first when they are really practicing the latter.
Most substance abusers also suffer from a mood disorder which is another life threatening disease. Just think for a minute how it sounds to tell someone who has a close friend with cancer to keep "healthy boundaries" from the patient. Yet people say it with addicts and depressed patients all the time.
"Healthy boundaries" is generally about state of mind, not actual physical distance from patient. The OP can be present and emotionally available to the extent that SHE feels comfortable with. Her friend still seems to be in the early stages of the disease. As in any disease, best to attempt to reverse it ASAP. This is not necessarily the same as "enabling."
If you figure out how to make someone else quit drinking, you will be a millionaire in no time.
I know her. She was my best friend. She was also my husband. They are all exactly the same person but with a different face. I realized that when I went to Al-Anon and listened to the stories of other people who cared about their alcoholics. They might as well have been talking about mine.
What Wmsn4Life said. Go to a meeting before you lose too much over someone with an addiction. There is a danger that there is something wrong with YOU for believing that there is something YOU can do to help your friend overcome the problem. You need to protect yourself.
My best friend was in recovery for 7 years. We had great times, and she helped me through a rough divorce. Then she decided that maybe she could have just one drink with dinner after all.
I haven't seen her in six years. To me, she is a friend who died. She is wet-brained now--doesn't make any sense when she talks, can't remember from one minute to the next what just happened, has to drink a big swig of vodka before she gets out of bed or she will have a seizure. After her relapse, she went back to rehab a number of times, but she was never again able to stop. She would show up drunk at the 7 a.m. AA meeting and deny to the other alcoholics that she had been drinking. I miss my friend, but she no longer exists.
Just saw this thread again. A week after I wrote the above post, I learned that my friend died of cirrhosis of the liver in September of 2014. Even though I knew I would hear this someday, it was still incredibly sad to find out that she drank herself to death. I will move forward remembering the times when she was sober.
Responses like these reflect our sad state of the "Me Society" nowadays.
OP, remember that you have more choice in this than the addict has over her drinking. Alanon could help you help her or at the very least, you will probably learn something. Never a bad thing.
I suspect many of the responders here are the same in the current thread of "how do you feel when an addict dies." Hint: most don't care.
Yet probably, they don't overlap. I just really don't wanna believe how much hate and apathy our society has for addicts. Doctors included.
I don't think alanon helps you to help the addict. Alanon helps you to help yourself in coming to terms with the addict's behaviors.
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