Do you have a gossiping, controlling, manipulative mother in law too? (siblings, member)
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My husband allows the women in his family to control him, yet he thinks I'm the issue haha
His mom lies an gossips, and when you confront her she denies it. Hilarious.
We don't live in the same state anymore so we rarely see his family. But husband is too weak to put her in her place. In fact, he gives her money. Disgusting.
There was a point, when she'd done enough bad stuff, my husband finally recognized she had a serious problem. Maybe you guys haven't reached that point? It's been over 30 years for us. He finally gets how toxic she is. When we were first married I found a letter she addressed to him (all correspondence was only addressed to him, as all phone calls were only made to his work phone and later his cell phone. I didn't exist. Anyway, in this letter she detailed how I would be going to hell and wouldn't be "saved" because I grew up in a liberal home. It was a slow build up of this kind of stuff.
Last edited by Withinpines; 11-24-2019 at 02:31 AM..
My M.I.L was very kind to my kids. Loved her son dearly.
Myself- Not so much. In retrospect and some 25 years since she passed.....I now GET her side (perspective).
Did she think unkindly...yes. Did she share that with others...perhaps with her close friends. Yet she carried the social grace to treat me with indifference...not hatred, spew or distain. She simply tolerated.
As some would re-iterate ...she put aside her personal opinion during family gatherings. That was the best that could be asked for.
I waited til after my son divorced his first wife to air my complete and utter distain for her (the D.I.L). So maybe my MIL taught me that much..... tolerate and then give a sigh of relief when they are out of the family life.
The first 5 years were the hardest. Then BIL married and his new wife put her (and FIL) in their place. Both MIL and FIL tagged along on the new couple's honeymoon. One month after their wedding, both showed no sign of leaving the new matrimonial home. So the new DIL packed them off. The house was fully paid for by FIL for this son when he graduated from college. And just before his wedding, his wife (fiancee then) made sure that he added her name to the house title.
Five years later, after FIL retired, they moved to the same city and thought they were going to live in that house. BIL and SIL picked them up at the ariport and drove them straight to a rented apartment.
Wow, thanks for this. I'm so sorry your wife struggles with a genetic disease. A common theme I identify in both our situations is the need for "boundaries". With my in laws, it's very necessary to make boundaries clear, or they will walk all over us and take advantage of us. My own 21 year old daughter sets boundaries with us and we respect them. For your wife's sanity, and yours, maybe you guys should set some clear boundaries with her parents?
She's tried before, and it got to the point, when we were renting from her mother, where she didn't want to talk to her mother because of what she was doing that she threatened to evict us for not returning her calls. To me that was the straw the broke the camels back.
My mom used a term for what my MIL has done to the men in this family; it's how a bull becomes a steer... You nailed the ominous dark feeling. It's very real. Do you look at it this, way as I do? Do you attribute this to mental illness or a darker type of thing? The reason I ask is because I felt a suffocating feeling around her, like I couldn't wait to gather my kids and go home. You asked if she shows fear? She is very confident, and in control. She does however chatter incessantly, to be the center of attention. I was never sure if it was nervousness.
In the case of the person that I know who is a sociopath, I attribute it to both genetics and environment. Her father is on the anti-social personality spectrum and so the environment growing up in the home was very dysfunctional and toxic. It is one part brain physiology coming from dad and one part behavioral imprinting.
The suffocating feeling is likely due to the fact that this MIL does not see the real you so it doesn't matter what you say or do. You are damned if you do, damned if you don't. You are walking on eggshells. She doesn't acknowledge the real you exists because you the decent, good, kind person does not work for her at all. She has rewritten and reconstructed you as she needs you to be to fit into HER reality. She needs you to be 'the bad' one and you also sense that she seeks control and dominance in events, situations, and people around her, and so you feel helpless and trapped in her presence. It is a no win situation and that's why you want to get away. Also, you sense that she is a threat or danger on some level to your sanity and well being so your instincts are telling you to get away. If you recall, you probably felt fear in your gut, stomach doing somersaults, or like the floor was being ripped out from under you when in her presence. It's a strange sudden weak feeling in the presence of very toxic people.
Her incessant chattering doesn't surprise me. Sounds like she is like an energy vacuum in the room sucking all the attention and power right to herself. Others around her are insignificant and invisible, unseen to her and the interactions are one-way and not two-way.
See even with you going no contact with her, she managed to figure out a way to win in her warped way. She was able to play the victim, blame you for the breakdown no longer talking to her, and now she gets her son all to herself. She gets to feel superior to you and drove you away which is what she wanted. It all feels very unfair, cruel, unjust, and makes you feel helpless and angry. Make no mistake that she knows this and feels warped satisfaction and sense of power in the group from this division, effectively pushing you out, and this spreading of unhappiness. When you have dealt with a truly 'toxic' human being, you understand how very real is that term 'toxicity'. They can be absolute masters at emotionally poisoning all of those around them. You can't let it happen. You have to get away and let the memories of them fade as much as possible.
Your husband should be acknowledging the hurt and pain this association with his family has caused you and not downplaying or minimizing it. He can go visit his parents from time to time but there should be some distancing on his part in response to the pain that his mother has caused his own family. You see this so often with the husband not doing a very good job of establishing boundaries with his parents or family and the wife gets years and years of mistreatment and even abuse right under his nose the entire time. Lots of hurt, pain, anger over time can build up but it can get minimized by a spouse who wants his relationship with parents to carry on and be undisturbed. He is getting love, rapport, support but his wife is getting only hurt and abuse. Very upsetting dynamic.
I think the dynamic probably goes back to some level of bullying and ostracizing new female members of a clan or group for keeping the dominance hierarchy status quo within the group. The new female can be perceived as a threat and some group members go to work to keep her low status within the group or exiled out. There are so many evolutionary psychology books about how in various contexts some women can do these things to each other- ie workplace, school cliques, families.
As for the religious part, this MIL uses her religion as just another way to feel superior to others. Lots of people do this. Those not within her religion or belief system are less than, defective, and wrong. You see how she pointed that out about you. One more attempt at tarnishing you in the eyes of others to disempower you while empowering and making herself superior. Obviously the actual tenets of her religion are completely lost on her .
Good job again in going no contact with this one! You did the smart and right thing to do!
GOOD for YOU & BRAVO for no longer catering to his highly narcissistic a-hole of a MIL who had all her flying monkeys around her. (If anyone's done any research on narcissism, you'll see that this is a real term amongst other things.)
Having kids or not shouldn't matter. No good parent would want to subject their kids to anyone this horrendous. People like this are wastes of space & the kids wouldn't learn anything of any good value from hem anyway.
My entire immediate family of 5 of my fiance' are all the same narcissists too.
My M.I.L was very kind to my kids. Loved her son dearly.
Myself- Not so much. In retrospect and some 25 years since she passed.....I now GET her side (perspective).
Did she think unkindly...yes. Did she share that with others...perhaps with her close friends. Yet she carried the social grace to treat me with indifference...not hatred, spew or distain. She simply tolerated.
As some would re-iterate ...she put aside her personal opinion during family gatherings. That was the best that could be asked for.
I waited til after my son divorced his first wife to air my complete and utter distain for her (the D.I.L). So maybe my MIL taught me that much..... tolerate and then give a sigh of relief when they are out of the family life.
I will admit that I don't tolerate people. Nor do I waste time with others who tolerate me. Conflicts are now addressed early on. I took a gamble many years ago taking this stance which included not visiting family members who treated others, including me, with indifference. I was threatened with divorce. People thought I was being mean. It paid off.
In the case of the person that I know who is a sociopath, I attribute it to both genetics and environment. Her father is on the anti-social personality spectrum and so the environment growing up in the home was very dysfunctional and toxic. It is one part brain physiology coming from dad and one part behavioral imprinting.
The suffocating feeling is likely due to the fact that this MIL does not see the real you so it doesn't matter what you say or do. You are damned if you do, damned if you don't. You are walking on eggshells. She doesn't acknowledge the real you exists because you the decent, good, kind person does not work for her at all. She has rewritten and reconstructed you as she needs you to be to fit into HER reality. She needs you to be 'the bad' one and you also sense that she seeks control and dominance in events, situations, and people around her, and so you feel helpless and trapped in her presence. It is a no win situation and that's why you want to get away. Also, you sense that she is a threat or danger on some level to your sanity and well being so your instincts are telling you to get away. If you recall, you probably felt fear in your gut, stomach doing somersaults, or like the floor was being ripped out from under you when in her presence. It's a strange sudden weak feeling in the presence of very toxic people.
Her incessant chattering doesn't surprise me. Sounds like she is like an energy vacuum in the room sucking all the attention and power right to herself. Others around her are insignificant and invisible, unseen to her and the interactions are one-way and not two-way.
See even with you going no contact with her, she managed to figure out a way to win in her warped way. She was able to play the victim, blame you for the breakdown no longer talking to her, and now she gets her son all to herself. She gets to feel superior to you and drove you away which is what she wanted. It all feels very unfair, cruel, unjust, and makes you feel helpless and angry. Make no mistake that she knows this and feels warped satisfaction and sense of power in the group from this division, effectively pushing you out, and this spreading of unhappiness. When you have dealt with a truly 'toxic' human being, you understand how very real is that term 'toxicity'. They can be absolute masters at emotionally poisoning all of those around them. You can't let it happen. You have to get away and let the memories of them fade as much as possible.
Your husband should be acknowledging the hurt and pain this association with his family has caused you and not downplaying or minimizing it. He can go visit his parents from time to time but there should be some distancing on his part in response to the pain that his mother has caused his own family. You see this so often with the husband not doing a very good job of establishing boundaries with his parents or family and the wife gets years and years of mistreatment and even abuse right under his nose the entire time. Lots of hurt, pain, anger over time can build up but it can get minimized by a spouse who wants his relationship with parents to carry on and be undisturbed. He is getting love, rapport, support but his wife is getting only hurt and abuse. Very upsetting dynamic.
I think the dynamic probably goes back to some level of bullying and ostracizing new female members of a clan or group for keeping the dominance hierarchy status quo within the group. The new female can be perceived as a threat and some group members go to work to keep her low status within the group or exiled out. There are so many evolutionary psychology books about how in various contexts some women can do these things to each other- ie workplace, school cliques, families.
As for the religious part, this MIL uses her religion as just another way to feel superior to others. Lots of people do this. Those not within her religion or belief system are less than, defective, and wrong. You see how she pointed that out about you. One more attempt at tarnishing you in the eyes of others to disempower you while empowering and making herself superior. Obviously the actual tenets of her religion are completely lost on her .
Good job again in going no contact with this one! You did the smart and right thing to do!
Thank you for taking the time to write this. You are very insightful and intuitive. Or you have a psychology degree... Again, you got right in my head. Thank you. I agree, the simplest measure has been to stop all contact. But you can see I'm still affected? Time will heal? But this will go down as the worst, most abusive thing that's happened to me and my kids. It's been like a 'Lifetime movie".
GOOD for YOU & BRAVO for no longer catering to his highly narcissistic a-hole of a MIL who had all her flying monkeys around her. (If anyone's done any research on narcissism, you'll see that this is a real term amongst other things.)
Having kids or not shouldn't matter. No good parent would want to subject their kids to anyone this horrendous. People like this are wastes of space & the kids wouldn't learn anything of any good value from hem anyway.
My entire immediate family of 5 of my fiance' are all the same narcissists too.
Oh no! Your poor fiance.. I'm so sorry for you too. This will be a life sentence of putting up with garbage then? I'm sorry. You must really love him.
The first 5 years were the hardest. Then BIL married and his new wife put her (and FIL) in their place. Both MIL and FIL tagged along on the new couple's honeymoon. One month after their wedding, both showed no sign of leaving the new matrimonial home. So the new DIL packed them off. The house was fully paid for by FIL for this son when he graduated from college. And just before his wedding, his wife (fiancee then) made sure that he added her name to the house title.
Five years later, after FIL retired, they moved to the same city and thought they were going to live in that house. BIL and SIL picked them up at the ariport and drove them straight to a rented apartment.
Why do people have no boundaries when their kids get married? It's frustrating to hear about grown adults who act so juvenile after their own children marry. They act like they "own" their adult children.
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You did the smart and right thing to do!
