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Old 06-12-2015, 04:40 PM
 
51 posts, read 53,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho Potato View Post
Most people who use the expression 'far right' are far left. It is just about positioning themselves as being in the center.

For every person who doesn't like NC moving to the right, there will be one who does. So it won't affect anything. The whole reason NC grew in the first place was people moving down from the north to escape the politics and taxes up there.

Most people don't see NC's move to a flat tax of 5.8 percent as a bad thing. That was NC moving to the right. That actually made the state more competitive and lucrative to businesses and individuals.
Nailed it.
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Old 06-12-2015, 05:33 PM
 
37,882 posts, read 41,970,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho Potato View Post
Most people who use the expression 'far right' are far left. It is just about positioning themselves as being in the center.
Not true at all. Many people who use the term are centrists, just like many who use the term "far left" are centrists or just right of center.
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Old 06-12-2015, 05:38 PM
 
51 posts, read 53,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Not true at all. Many people who use the term are centrists, just like many who use the term "far left" are centrists or just right of center.
And many liberals masquerade as centrists.
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Old 06-12-2015, 05:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMT21 View Post
And many liberals masquerade as centrists.
As do many conservatives, but I'm talking about actual centrists/moderates. I know some people don't think they exist, but they do.
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Old 06-18-2015, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Patrolling The Wasteland
396 posts, read 409,968 times
Reputation: 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho Potato View Post
Most people who use the expression 'far right' are far left. It is just about positioning themselves as being in the center.

For every person who doesn't like NC moving to the right, there will be one who does. So it won't affect anything. The whole reason NC grew in the first place was people moving down from the north to escape the politics and taxes up there.

Most people don't see NC's move to a flat tax of 5.8 percent as a bad thing. That was NC moving to the right. That actually made the state more competitive and lucrative to businesses and individuals.
Wait... since when was this the case? That is completely revisionist and practically borders on being specious. Most of the South was brought into the 20th and 21st centuries kicking and screaming.

Economic expansion in North Carolina is due, ironically, to a great deal of Federal intervention and the migration of businesses from the North into the South for the exact opposite reason that you state. Businesses are going to travel in the direction of least resistance: unions have historically been weak in the Sun Belt and that meant potential for higher profits. Certainly not because people were running away from politics and taxes "up there."

Even in the past twenty five years people are not necessarily fleeing from onerous taxation and the specter of socialistic politics as much as they are pursuing the hot trend in economic growth. North Carolina has huge economic potential because it has the room to grow, as evidenced by the absurdly cheap prices in most of the state.

As for the flat tax. I have heard plenty of criticism. Your perspective depends on what rock you choose to put your ear to.
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Old 06-18-2015, 01:52 PM
 
37,882 posts, read 41,970,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxtheRoadWarrior View Post
Most of the South was brought into the 20th and 21st centuries kicking and screaming.
I agree that people moving from North to South were just following economic opportunity first and foremost, combined with a lower cost of living and milder weather, but economically I don't see how this statement holds. Southern states actively pursued military installations, offered generous incentives to industries, and leveraged the advantages offered by their colleges and universities to attract economic investment and were all too eager to do so.
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Old 06-18-2015, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Patrolling The Wasteland
396 posts, read 409,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
I agree that people moving from North to South were just following economic opportunity first and foremost, combined with a lower cost of living and milder weather, but economically I don't see how this statement holds. Southern states actively pursued military installations, offered generous incentives to industries, and leveraged the advantages offered by their colleges and universities to attract economic investment and were all too eager to do so.
When I say "brought into the 20th and 21st centuries kicking and screaming" I am not talking purely about economics. I absolutely agree on every point, but there were and remain glaring flaws in North Carolina's industrialization as it relates to the actual benefits for its working population.

Though North Carolina is celebrated as one of the more progressive and reform minded states in the South, it was still entrenched in its opposition to Civil Rights just as it was entrenched in its opposition to worker's rights today. North Carolina was eager to embrace industrialization, it was just not so willing to embrace this growth at the expense of its traditional identity, which is where my remark comes from.
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Old 06-19-2015, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Durham, NC
1,615 posts, read 1,968,230 times
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NC was never a progressive state. It had more populist policies than many other southern states, and its government was less ardent about keeping segregation than its neighbors, from the 30s to the 70s, but it has always been a very rural-dominated state in its politics. In the 80s the state electorate shifted rightward. Clinton failed to win it in '92 or '96 despite winning by large electoral margins and taking a lot of other southern states like TN, GA, KY, FL, AK. No ambiguity about it NC was a firmly conservative state in the 90s, only beaten by its immediate neighbors really. And it only started shifting back to the center in the 00s, with the explosive growth in the major cities beginning to affect the statewide balance.

The progressive democrats in the cities had a very unhappy marriage with the center-right eastern NC democrats that ran the state for a century. We're witnessing the effects of their divorce now. The party literally collapsed beneath their feet.
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Old 06-19-2015, 03:55 PM
 
37,882 posts, read 41,970,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxtheRoadWarrior View Post
When I say "brought into the 20th and 21st centuries kicking and screaming" I am not talking purely about economics. I absolutely agree on every point, but there were and remain glaring flaws in North Carolina's industrialization as it relates to the actual benefits for its working population.

Though North Carolina is celebrated as one of the more progressive and reform minded states in the South, it was still entrenched in its opposition to Civil Rights just as it was entrenched in its opposition to worker's rights today. North Carolina was eager to embrace industrialization, it was just not so willing to embrace this growth at the expense of its traditional identity, which is where my remark comes from.
OK, gotcha.
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Old 06-20-2015, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic east coast
7,129 posts, read 12,670,656 times
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If the proposed underwater exploration (and testing) kills dolphins and whales and future oil rigs have their usual accidents and oil spills that spoil our pristine coastal areas and beaches--then yes, the Drill Baby Drill proposed by NC politicos... NC will not be a place many will want to move to or locate new business in...

Ruining our best resources will have a HUGE effect on tourism, real estate values and future economic development for all of the NC coastal regions.

And if the proposed fracking inland ruins the water table and aquifers in our rich agricultural and livestock raising lands and in our homes and farms--what do we end up with? Worthless unmarketable white elephants.

Look what happened in Pennsylvania where fracking ruined people's groundwater, leaving them with toxic water flowing from their spigots--undrinkable--can't take a bath or a shower in it.

It's not really about conservative or liberal politics--it's about unbridled GREED and total disregard for our fragile earth, rivers and oceans, meadows and fields.

Our natural resources are NOT a commodity--they are a living system of living and breathing beings..us among them. We're just a part of it all..we're all related.

Harm one and harm us all.
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