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For all practical intents and purposes, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, and Durham are all in the same tier as individual cities/MSAs with Asheville and Wilmington being just a step below. Greensboro is probably more popularly viewed as third based on municipal population alone, but all three are more or less equal in terms of amenities and offerings. Many people tend to judge a city's standing on its downtown and in that respect, Winston-Salem would probably come out on top; it is also more of a "legacy city" than Greensboro and Durham given its history as a premier business center of the state. Long term, I see Durham pulling away from the pack as the Triangle continues its rapid ascent.
Personally, it's a two city race for the third city, and I think hard statistics back it up. Winston-Salem may have at one point of time been a larger and more important city than Greensboro, but that day has passed, in much the same way that both cities were once ahead of Raleigh...
Frankly, Greensboro puts more distance between it and Winston each year. It's faster growth is what's booning the Triad, it has a greater population density, far less crime, far less poverty, higher income, bigger economy that's also growing faster, etc. Maybe it shares or is equal to Winston in amenities, but in mostly all matters that count, Greensboro is the lead city of the two. Therefore, I'd say the No. 3 NC City is between it and Durham. I can say Greensboro is still ahead right now, but that may be on the verge of changing within the next decade...
@mutiny, I don't think I or other people who take the time to thoroughly examine both Greensboro and Winston are judging strictly off municipal population. The numbers bear overwhelmingly in Greensboro's favor. Again, I'm not arguing that Winston isn't same tier or that it offers many of the same or similar amenities, but I think it's clear that Winston is at least slightly behind, with a slowly widening gap...
Greensboro is clearly the more standalone/standout city of the Triad. Winston doesnt really touch Durham at all. Either Durham or Greensboro is North Carolina's third city.
Personally, it's a two city race for the third city, and I think hard statistics back it up. Winston-Salem may have at one point of time been a larger and more important city than Greensboro, but that day has passed, in much the same way that both cities were once ahead of Raleigh...
Frankly, Greensboro puts more distance between it and Winston each year. It's faster growth is what's booning the Triad, it has a greater population density, far less crime, far less poverty, higher income, bigger economy that's also growing faster, etc. Maybe it shares or is equal to Winston in amenities, but in mostly all matters that count, Greensboro is the lead city of the two. Therefore, I'd say the No. 3 NC City is between it and Durham. I can say Greensboro is still ahead right now, but that may be on the verge of changing within the next decade...
@mutiny, I don't think I or other people who take the time to thoroughly examine both Greensboro and Winston are judging strictly off municipal population. The numbers bear overwhelmingly in Greensboro's favor. Again, I'm not arguing that Winston isn't same tier or that it offers many of the same or similar amenities, but I think it's clear that Winston is at least slightly behind, with a slowly widening gap...
Greensboro is clearly the more standalone/standout city of the Triad. Winston doesnt really touch Durham at all. Either Durham or Greensboro is North Carolina's third city.
The statistics certainly stand on their own, but I don't think most people are aware of those statistics when they talk about Greensboro being third in NC; I think it's mostly based on city population, infrastructure (Greensboro has a very extensive highway network for its size and it has the region's airport), and the fact that Greensboro plays host to more large-scale events with its large venues. Also, although High Point tends to take a lot of crap and is probably the state's redheaded stepchild after Fayetteville, as a primary city of the region with a notable furniture industry, it does contribute its fair share to the MSA. Winston-Salem carries the load by itself for the most part within its MSA.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the future as far as these MSAs/CSAs go. Another change in criteria could shake things up a bit.
I ranked Greensboro as No. 3, but if I wasn't looking at individual cities, the Triad would be the third largest metro area in the state behind Charlotte and the Triangle (even though the census designations technically now split the Triad and Triangle into two MSAs--they each still function as one region).
I do think that both Asheville and Wilmington are hub cities over a larger area mileage wise than cities such as Winston-Salem and Durham that are in close proximity to, and in some ways have competition with, other reasonable size cities. For example, someone living in Pittsboro may go to Durham/Chapel Hill or Raleigh Cary. Someone living in Kernersville may go to Winston-Salem or Greensboro/High Point. People who live in the outlying areas of Asheville (i.e. places like Bryson City) and Wilmington (i.e. places like Burgaw) don't have as many options to go to for the "big city", so they both tend to be a hub for much more activity than their modest populations would suggest.
i think ranking cities is pointless but i would have Gboro and Winston Salem over both in terms of entire metro. they are farther apart from each other than Durham and Raleigh, and stand on their own in my view.
i don't see a big reason for people living in WS to go to Gboro or Gboro people go to WS. Gboro probably has some retail and restaurants that WS does not, but that is probably because Gboro is on 85.
I think both Wilmington and Asheville standout more than Durham as well.
In terms of economy, cosmopolitanism, transportation infrastructure and name recognition, I would put Greensboro as the #3 city in NC.
In terms of being an actual city (urban core, history, character, neighborhoods, culture, etc.), I would put Winston-Salem in #3. (In fact it can be argued that Winston-Salem has a better urban core and more culture than Raleigh--but the economy and population is where Raleigh clearly comes out ahead). For those who think these factors don't matter, look at South Carolina. Columbia is the largest city and Greenville is the largest metro area, but Charleston is considered the premier city in the state (especially outside of City-Data).
As someone previously mentioned, some of the clout of Greensboro's MSA comes from High Point, not Greensboro itself.
Durham is a nice city (I especially like the American Tobacco Trail and Southpoint Mall), but without RTP, Raleigh, and Chapel Hill, I don't think it would be on par with Greensboro and Winston.
Last edited by shunketsu; 07-29-2016 at 03:29 PM..
not to get off track but i don't agree Charleston is considered the premiere city in SC except by people who know little about the state. Gville, Charleston and COlumbia are all similar size metros.
In terms of economy, cosmopolitanism, transportation infrastructure and name recognition, I would put Greensboro as the #3 city in NC.
In terms of being an actual city (urban core, history, character, neighborhoods, culture, etc.), I would put Winston-Salem in #3. (In fact it can be argued that Winston-Salem has a better urban core and more culture than Raleigh--but the economy and population is where Raleigh clearly comes out ahead). For those who think these factors don't matter, look at South Carolina. Columbia is the largest city and Greenville is the largest metro area, but Charleston is considered the premier city in the state (especially outside of City-Data).
As someone previously mentioned, some of the clout of Greensboro's MSA comes from High Point, not Greensboro itself.
Durham is a nice city (I especially like the American Tobacco Trail and Southpoint Mall), but without RTP, Raleigh, and Chapel Hill, I don't think it would be on par with Greensboro and Winston.
Based on personal experience and the opinions of some of my friends in Arkansas, New Jersey, California, New York and Massachusetts I disagree. While most knew that Greensboro NC was a thing, they had no idea it was one of the largest cities in NC - yet all knew Durham had to be one. They all knew where Durham was on the map ("near Raleigh"), but few could place Greensboro. Obviously my friends that I asked do not constitute the end all be all of out-of-stater NC knowledge, but it is what it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian
not to get off track but i don't agree Charleston is considered the premiere city in SC except by people who know little about the state. Gville, Charleston and COlumbia are all similar size metros.
Disagree. Charleston is easily the most recognizable SC city/metro, followed by Columbia and then probably Myrtle Beach. I highly doubt that someone in Omaha Nebraska has ever heard of Greenville SC over Charleston or MB.
recognizable to people who are not familiar with the state in general is not proof Charleston is the 'leading' city. Greenville is the most populated country, MSA, and CSA in the state, and has the most robust private sector economy. Columbia is the state capital, and is the largest city.
MB is a beach town. tourist town and 'leading city' are not the same thing.
In terms of economy, cosmopolitanism, transportation infrastructure and name recognition, I would put Greensboro as the #3 city in NC.
In terms of being an actual city (urban core, history, character, neighborhoods, culture, etc.), I would put Winston-Salem in #3. (In fact it can be argued that Winston-Salem has a better urban core and more culture than Raleigh--but the economy and population is where Raleigh clearly comes out ahead). For those who think these factors don't matter, look at South Carolina. Columbia is the largest city and Greenville is the largest metro area, but Charleston is considered the premier city in the state (especially outside of City-Data).
As someone previously mentioned, some of the clout of Greensboro's MSA comes from High Point, not Greensboro itself.
Durham is a nice city (I especially like the American Tobacco Trail and Southpoint Mall), but without RTP, Raleigh, and Chapel Hill, I don't think it would be on par with Greensboro and Winston.
Lol, I haven't heard to many people even put Raleigh and Winston-Salem in the same league outside of skyline comparisons. Winston-Salem is nice, but I wouldn't say it's urban core is more impressive than Raleigh's. It's culture isn't deeper either IMO. Raleigh's core ( by itself ) is larger, and is very bustling compared to most cities/towns in NC. It is what it is, and all this denial needs to go.
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