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The worst is when someone in their 20s calls co-workers or bosses "ma'am" and "sir." It seems stilted and servile. You do sometimes have to coach young guys from the South or right out of the military not to do that. Very unprofessional.
So what's better & more "professional?" Homey? Bro?
I prefer Ma'am and Sir to You Guys since the root word of guys means a person of grotesque appearance. I find you guys or guys a disrespectful way to address a person but it doesn't seem to stop almost every wait staff in the area from using it more and more. So I eat out less and less. I am not going to pay a tip to a person that calls me grotesque more than once. I will politely give the tip the first time I eat at a place but if I or my husband is called guys it will be our last time eating there.
Hmm. That's interesting. People interpret things in a different way. And I still think this has regional, class, and generational differences.
Overly formal language can come off as polite and a sign of respect, but it can also be kind of an artificial barrier to communication. If you're trying to be friendly to someone, "ma'am" and "sir" can come off as stand-offish.
The worst is when someone in their 20s calls co-workers or bosses "ma'am" and "sir." It seems stilted and servile. You do sometimes have to coach young guys from the South or right out of the military not to do that. Very unprofessional.
We live in a world where we don't say sir or ma'am very often. As a result we're out of practice and so it seems artificial. However, being out of practice isn't a reason to not do it. Once you're comfortable with saying sir or ma'am, it's becomes second natural and isn't artificial at all.
BTW - I'd think part of being a young professional is learning the ropes of how to function in the working world? Starting off conservatively and loosening up over time isn't a bad thing. I know I did the first few weeks of work in my early 20's, but I learned quickly enough.
Actually, you're not supposed to address female customers, patrons, etc. with the title "ma'am." You're supposed to address females with the title "miss," regardless of their age and/or marital status. Actually, technically speaking, the most proper and politically correct title is "Ms." (pronounced "mizz"); but most people pronounce the prefix "Ms." the same way they pronounce "miss" out of either laziness or not knowing that those two titles are pronounced differently. I learned that when I was growing up and attending Roman Catholic grammar school where you undoubtedly receive some of the highest caliber education on both the English language and respect. Unlike my parents, however, my teachers weren't nuns. If anyone a few decades older than me is originally from the Northeast and attended Roman Catholic grammar school, they received their education from nuns who were much harsher critics than the instructors I had.
I worked three different customer jobs throughout high school and undergrad. "Ms." or "Miss" was how I always addressed female customers, patrons, etc.; again regardless of their age and/or marital status. Assuming a female's age is a very bold, potentially dangerous thing to do. Most women, especially older women, are absolutely flattered when you refer to them as "Miss" or "Ms." They like it so much because the title "Miss" is usually attributed to or associated with being young. That's my $0.02.
Interesting, because since moving a little further north than NC I've encountered this practice and I'm not fond of it. To my mind, "miss" should only be used for those under 18 if you don't know anything about them, and otherwise "ma'am" is highly preferable. I'll note that this isn't just southern; I've worked in The Netherlands and there "madam" is used for anyone over 18 and "miss" is for anyone under 18. At my age and with my experience in life, I don't find it flattering to imply that I'm a teenager. It makes me miss NC!
The worst is when someone in their 20s calls co-workers or bosses "ma'am" and "sir." It seems stilted and servile. You do sometimes have to coach young guys from the South or right out of the military not to do that. Very unprofessional.
This is the dumbest thing I've read in quite a while.
This is the dumbest thing I've read in quite a while.
Two choices - 1) Add a flourish to you speech that might be nice to a small segment of the country and offend or make you sound silly to a much larger segment; or 2) Just be polite to everyone without using "ma'am." Not using "ma'am" won't be a dealbreaker as long as you are polite and come off as serious and confident .
If you're doing business in rural areas only, you might pick number 1. But trust me, it comes off pretty bad when dealing with clients in the northeast, Midwest or west. Better to break the habit now than lose a deal down the road because you inadvertently offend someone.
Two choices - 1) Add a flourish to you speech that might be nice to a small segment of the country and offend or make you sound silly to a much larger segment; or 2) Just be polite to everyone without using "ma'am." Not using "ma'am" won't be a dealbreaker as long as you are polite and come off as serious and confident .
If you're doing business in rural areas only, you might pick number 1. But trust me, it comes off pretty bad when dealing with clients in the northeast, Midwest or west. Better to break the habit now than lose a deal down the road because you inadvertently offend someone.
We're blowing the use of sir and ma'am in the workplace out of proportion. In my world, I deal with very highly educated people - most raised outside the south. When someone young shows up out of school, everyone cuts them some slack if they don't know "the rules". If they're reasonably intelligent, they'll conform to whatever those rules are soon enough.
However, I do work with some folks that use sir or ma'am occasionally and no one looks down on them for it. In my world, folks are measured by their contribution and how they present themselves. A single mannerism such as calling someone Sir vs. Joe isn't going to make a difference.
As I watch this thread go one, I'm beginning to almost want to reverse it and ask, "why do some people have such a strong dislike for the us of sir/ma'am?" To me, it seems pretty harmless to do it, but there appears to be many people who really dislike it.
As I watch this thread go one, I'm beginning to almost want to reverse it and ask, "why do some people have such a strong dislike for the us of sir/ma'am?" To me, it seems pretty harmless to do it, but there appears to be many people who really dislike it.
That is a really good question. I'm speculating here but I think it's caught up in class relations and issues with age. I think people are offended by it in the Northeast because that is an area where immigration is more recent and there was a lot more social mobility and movement. For most middle-class Northeasterners, you can probably go back just two or three generations and find a poor European immigrant. Titles like "ma'am and "sir" were used to keep the peasantry in their place. They are terms of deference. I imagine that left a bad taste in those immigrants' mouths and it fell out of use or became offensive. There were also a lot of people from different places with different customs, so direct communication became more necessary and formal language was viewed as pretentious or a waste of time.
In the South, things were much more paternalistic and static. There was very little immigration and very little movement from one social class to another until well into the late 20th century. So those old class-based patterns of speech took just weren't questioned or thought about.
We're blowing the use of sir and ma'am in the workplace out of proportion. In my world, I deal with very highly educated people - most raised outside the south. When someone young shows up out of school, everyone cuts them some slack if they don't know "the rules". If they're reasonably intelligent, they'll conform to whatever those rules are soon enough.
You're right, of course. I don't think one use of "ma'am" would be a deal breaker. There are some young guys though that are so programmed to say it that they won't stop even after you've told them to call you by your first name. When someone says "ma'am" or "sir" 15 or 20 times in a meeting, it just feels wrong. I know it comes from a good place, but it's best to break the habit.
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