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Raleigh made a big mistake building the PNC arena in the burbs. I still don't understand why they didn't build it downtown.
A lot of people can't, but they have to understand that the City of Raleigh had very little saying to this. This was a decision that NC State University made, not the City of Raleigh. As a person who supported that decision I can tell you that my reasons were based on two things:
There was no place Downtown where the arena could go back then. Not without pissing NIMBYs off. The infrastructure would not be able to hold the traffic. Today is a different case, especially with the Cargill site being "available". NIMBYs would still fight it, of course.
There was a really nice plan to develop the surrounding areas and create a somewhat dense and urban district - not in the traditional way, but urban enough. Since then, very little progress was made and nothing near what we hoped to see. Maybe some day, but by then PNC Arena will probably have been relocated.
Of course, there will always be people who will favor one location over another. At this point in time we - city of Raleigh - have to think more about urbanizing important corridors (i.e. Blue Ridge Rd) and connecting them nicely with Downtown and other "urban centers". We cannot undo the damage that decades of suburban development has done, but we can minimize its impact. PNC Arena can stay where it is, provided we develop the area around it in an urban manner, IMHO. I'd rather have an MLS field Downtown, though
The reality is that the Hurricanes are probably located where they should be in PNC and because the Hurricanes depend just as much on Cary, the Wake Co suburbs and even Durham for their fanbase. In fact I think MLS would struggle in downtown Raleigh because of the way the population distribution regionally works.
Where Raleigh missed the boat, IMO is not having a minor league baseball stadium downtown (like Durham) and it got shuttled out to Zebulon (lower growth area). That was a missed opportunity.
Raleigh has a bunch of museums. That is what they should expand on to create foot traffic. But there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to how they have been placed. As well the State should invest in office space in downtown Raleigh rather than having it just anywhere.
Where Raleigh missed the boat, IMO is not having a minor league baseball stadium downtown (like Durham) and it got shuttled out to Zebulon (lower growth area). That was a missed opportunity.
I can't find it right now, but I believe there is a rule that minor league baseball teams need to be at least 50 miles apart without having the consent of the current team before a new one moves in. I realize that there are other minor league teams within 50 miles of each other, but they must have had an agreement. The Mudcats probably did not get the same agreement from the Bulls when they came into the market.
It appears the original Carolina Mudcats team moved to Zebulon in 1991, so they would have needed permission from the Bulls to be within 50 miles of where they played. If you look at the map, The Mudcats play EXACTLY 50.0 miles from where the Bulls play. I would love for DT Raleigh to get a AAA team, but that would really eat away at the Bulls sales big time.
Good points. PNC Arena was built in the late 90's, just before the nationwide trend of building new arenas downtown ramped up. Downtown Raleigh didn't even seem to be much of a destination then; Fayetteville Street was still a relatively dead pedestrian mall. It was really a timing issue more than anything, and the big push for new state-of-the-art arenas is largely driven by the NFL and NBA. NHL teams that share venues with NBA teams obviously benefit as well but venues with NHL teams as the primary professional occupant usually don't.
Not having PNC Arena downtown results in Raleigh not being as favorable of a location for tournaments and such (CIAA, Final Four) compared to cities with downtown venues, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Raleigh missed out on a wave of urban development that would have occurred afterwards. Ballparks tend to do a better job when it comes to that, especially minor league ballparks, and they also tend to be better integrated into the urban fabric.
I think there's probably an opportunity for Raleigh to be unique among NC cities with a downtown soccer-specific venue.
An even more recent missed opportunity is Charlotte not allocating more land when they constructed BB&T Ballpark to allow the ballpark to expand to MLB standards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by js4life
A new stadium doesn't put Charlotte anywhere near the top of the list to host the Superbowl,Final Four. LA & Vegas will be at the top once their new stadiums open in couple of years. I think people don't realise that the Panthers stadium revenue is still in the top half of the NFL because that have a ton of club seats & luxury boxes. Plus they haven't even maximized revenue opportunities in their current location.
A new stadium, when it happens, would put Charlotte at the top of the list for each of those respectively.
Good points. PNC Arena was built in the late 90's, just before the nationwide trend of building new arenas downtown ramped up. Downtown Raleigh didn't even seem to be much of a destination then; Fayetteville Street was still a relatively dead pedestrian mall. It was really a timing issue more than anything, and the big push for new state-of-the-art arenas is largely driven by the NFL and NBA. NHL teams that share venues with NBA teams obviously benefit as well but venues with NHL teams as the primary professional occupant usually don't.
Not having PNC Arena downtown results in Raleigh not being as favorable of a location for tournaments and such (CIAA, Final Four) compared to cities with downtown venues, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Raleigh missed out on a wave of urban development that would have occurred afterwards. Ballparks tend to do a better job when it comes to that, especially minor league ballparks, and they also tend to be better integrated into the urban fabric.
I think there's probably an opportunity for Raleigh to be unique among NC cities with a downtown soccer-specific venue.
And don't forget that PNC Arena is for NC State's indoor athletics too, even though downtown would have worked also, probably closer too.
State didn’t want it downtown. They wanted it next to Carter-Finley and close to the highway for convenience. And the Final Four is obviously not going to the PNC even if downtown.
State didn’t want it downtown from what I remember. No one did. The Hurricanes season ticket base is in the suburbs and in the suburbs they will likely remain.
Edwards Mill Road is hardly the "burbs", but I understand what you're saying.
With traffic the nightmare that it is to PNC Arena, even with temporarily converting a few roads to one way traffic before and reversing after an event,...
Downtown would need to make sure routes are capable of handling events.
I don't think a downtown stadium is right for Raleigh. It a small scale neighborhood and historic neighborhoods are so close and well as others that are somewhat desirsble, and some up & coming.
A huge stsdium and the massive parking requirement would detract from the lovely small scale of Downtown.
And the skyline isn't anything special to look at, and I think it will keep growing with modest-height towers.
Raleigh will be unique. Like how Madison, WI outshines Milwaukee.
Edwards Mill Road is hardly the "burbs", but I understand what you're saying.
With traffic the nightmare that it is to PNC Arena, even with temporarily converting a few roads to one way traffic before and reversing after an event,...
Downtown would need to make sure routes are capable of handling events.
I don't think a downtown stadium is right for Raleigh. It a small scale neighborhood and historic neighborhoods are so close and well as others that are somewhat desirsble, and some up & coming.
A huge stsdium and the massive parking requirement would detract from the lovely small scale of Downtown.
And the skyline isn't anything special to look at, and I think it will keep growing with modest-height towers.
Raleigh will be unique. Like how Madison, WI outshines Milwaukee.
If Greenville, SC can have its main arena downtown and still maintain its charm, Raleigh could have very well done the same.
Raleigh could have done it. But no one wanted it downtown. As far as I know, that holds true today. The state government does need to do a better job developing their land on Blue Ridge.
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