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Bagldot]......We're moving for many of the reasons cited: taxes, car insurance, less congestion, calmer way of life. Husband is retired (young in 50's), and I telecommute, so once the last child is out of HS, we're out of NJ. It's just toooooooo expensive anymore. And yes, PA does not tax pensions -- good news for us. I just got back from a business trip and upon arriving at Newark Airport, looked around and thought to myself "I can't wait to get to PA". The congestion around here is wicked.
SWB great posting....I had to put the quote of Bagldot up because it is exactly what our situation was. Husband retired at 50, last child out of HS,it was time to move on. Plus, my parents and brother were already in Pa for quite a number of years( from NJ also.) I no longer liked the congestion. I go back now and see places I thought were grand, and realize they were not.
I paid the out of state college fees for a daughter who attended Bloomsburg University. On my many trips to Pa to visit her and my parents.......I knew this was the place to be oneday. I have been here almost 13 years now and I feel more at home here then anywhere else.
There is only two things I complain about with the New York influx.
The very "inner city" kids, who don't blend well with this country style of living.
They have made a muck of places like PCP, and SC and PE. The loud gang style environment does not sit well with me. Its not good for schools, for towns, or for Pa in general. I dont' know honestly, if they really like living in the country themselves. Where skiing, swimming, hiking, boating, and simple pleasures abound.
There also is an air of rudeness, that was not here when I first arrived.
I can patiently wait in an aisle waiting, waiting, waiting, for two people ,or more then two people, to move aside. Smile, smile again....wait. They do not move. I don't understand this. I don't even know where it comes from.
But, it happens a lot. At different stores and locations. I hear the voices I know where they are from. But, for the life of me I don't understand......why one feels they can just do that for as long as they wish... Is this the "moxie" I hear of on other states postings, or what?
Gosh Mods don't ban me. It has happened so many times that I can hardly ignor it.
We all hope for the best of our Pa. Keeping the mountains green, the land uncrowded. We need to keep that quiet, peacefulness also.......
I am a Pennsylvanian. I can visit NYC for action, or plays, or that gorgeous Christmas Tree tradition. Stop by Radio City Music Hall, as I have since I was 7 or 8........then.........scurry back home to this quaint, quiet, village I love.
Last edited by ontheroad; 12-22-2007 at 11:22 AM..
Reason: added quote marks
Since my last post was "orphaned," I'll try again
(I was commenting in response to some of the nasty posters, and I believe my post quoted theirs and thus would have made no sense...)
I'm a native of eastern PA. While many people think of the natives in this area as closed-minded and backward, I'd like to offer another take on it. The vast majority of the people who are my friends and neighbors have nothing against new folks moving into our area. What we are a bit dismayed about are the quality of life issues that have followed with the influx of NY/NJ folks. They also have a fear of what they imagine to be "city issues." (sprawl, traffic, drugs, crime, etc)
Many of the cultural gaps and growing pains, I believe, could have been addressed by prudent long-range planning here in PA. Homes and businesses went up willy-nilly without any regard for concerns such as traffic and run-off, and these issues have become huge. Marshall's Creek on a Saturday, anyone? Water Gap at rush hour?
The infrastructure is not here to support this development, and the Poconos can be a real mess. It's a hassle to travel certain places at certain times of the day. People who have lived here for a long time are completely resentful of having to sit in traffic so much these days. Couple that with the new "aggressive driving" that is norm, and it can be scary (especially for seniors and new drivers) just to get around here.
The schools cannot handle the influx either. They are flying by the seat of their pants. I drove by East Stroudsburg HS the other day and all the porta-classrooms look like some kind of labyrinth on what used to be the front lawn. The new homes, even with taxes paid, do not pay for themselves when you look at the cost of educating all the kids that live in them. The fixed-income folks are pinched and so are the younger folks like me who can't afford good housing. More resentment! However, when you factor in a good dose of the entitlement-type attitude that the newbies to the area exhibit, you can easily see why the locals complain bitterly. I wish I had an answer for this. Maybe we all need some sensitivity training or something.
Also, and to me the most dangerous aspect of all the population growth is the fact that emergency services in the Monroe County area are severely outclassed. Many small municipalities do not have 24/7 coverage and then need to rely on the State Police. I have had people in crisis who are sick or injured and have had to wait 45 minutes for State Police before I can access the patient. On weekends especially, there just aren't enough ambulances to cover Monroe County. The wait times are extended and with the constant development, it's really hard to find some houses and that can also mean delays in care. The Pocono ER is a madhouse almost all the time now - they are really the only game in town hospital wise for miles and miles. The road crews who plow this area have trouble keeping up, but with increased traffic and cars parked everywhere, their jobs become even more difficult. Then to top everything off, the "transient" population do not pay their ambulance bills and the squads suffer from lack of revenue.
Lastly, I think the locals are resentful and fearful of this whole "commuter lifestyle" thing. The folks who work at the highest-paying jobs and live in the biggest McMansions are also the folks who are gone from at least 5a-8p daily. When both parents do this, it takes on a much more dangerous turn. You have children who are inappropriately unsupervised after school, and that is where much of the drugs/gangs/vandalism/mischief gets started IMO. The social problems stemming from unsupervised adolescence are many and great. One way I think the locals could try to mitigate this is by trying to have more before/after school programs and activities (like more YMCAs) where the kids can be supervised and safe, yet have some fun too. The parents have moved here for a "better life," but is it really? What are the long-term consequences of this "commuter lifestyle." I'd love to see some reports/statistics about its effect on marriage and the family since it is such a widespread way of living in the Poconos/Eastern PA these days.
Personally, just my opinion for what it's worth, if all Pocono/Eastern PA residents were a little more community-minded, it would go a LONG way to improving everyone's quality of life. If we were all a little gentler while sitting in traffic, a little more patient while waiting in line, a little friendlier towards our neighbors, a little more tolerant of different races/faiths than our own, then this area would be a much better place. Volunteer - do something, anything to improve your community today and it will pay dividends for all of us tomorrow
Sorry for the novel. I just want to throw up my hands and scream "Why can't we just get along???"
I think that NEPA natives are suspicious of the New Yorkers for two reasons: the number one reason is that we have been inundated with drug dealing criminal gang members, most of which hail from NY and NJ (and Philly as well). Everytime we hear of a drug bust in the news, they more often than not are from Newark, Paterson, Jersey City, Bronx, Queens, etc. I know this doesn't mean that all or even a majority of NY/NJ people moving in are criminals, but it doesn't help their reputation, unfortunately. The second reason is that NY/NJ people can tend to have an abrasive/rude personality. We have a couple who lives down the street from us (moved here from NY), and have kids in the same school as our kids, who are actually very helpful people at the school (PTA, etc), yet they are VERY abrasive...yelling at kids at school functions for no really good reason. Also, for whatever reason, these people don't tend to keep their property up. Their house is a decent house, but the shrubs and the grass are always overgrown.
So that's it, really, One of the reasons is something we NEPA natives need to work on. We need to stop painting with a broad brush and automatically labeling any NY/NJ transplant as a card-carrying member of the Crips or Bloods. Most that move here are decent people just seeking a better life for their family. And the second reason is something the NY/NJ crowd needs to work on....they need to adjust to our pace here in NE PA and leave the NY attitude in NY.
I'm a native of the NY area as well. I have been here in PA for 20 years and I think adjusted pretty well. There are times I miss Long Island, but I know I couldn't go back there because of the high cost of living. Only if I won the lottery could I go back. I know the reputation us New Yorkers have and all I can say is don't let a few bad apples ruin the whole bunch. I'm not a criminal, never been in jail and don't belong to a gang. But I can see how people can think this way about New Yorkers. Open up the New York Post on any given day and you'll see what I mean.
I too can see how Pa people can generalize when it comes to judging NYers. I myself have been guilty of talking about the dang NYers and I come from NY!! Some really need to try to blend. Some make crass comments as if we here in Pa are a notch down in inteligence.
Then again...I worked with the public for 10 yrs here and there are plenty of completely obnoxious, born and raised pennsylvanians.
I have met people on vacation here in the summer who are from Manhattan and have children raised in Manhattan and you would swear they were born and raised on a farm.
There are good and bad in every state....
I guess I can view the situation from both sides. A little background on me:
I was born and raised in Honesdale, PA. Went to college at Penn State out in central PA. Followed that up with grad school in Philly (talk about culture shock for me!) and then back to Penn State for a job. After that, I moved to central NJ (Somerset) for a job (1 hour commute to go 20 miles to Rahway everyday). Although I made friends in NJ, I really didn't like it there. Several reasons: number 1 was the congestion, I just don't like the city type of life. Secondly, the people there are rude (with the exception of a small group of friends I knew well).
I jumped at the opportunity to take a job in NW NJ because it gave me the opportunity to move closer to home. I now own a home in Dingmans Ferry, PA and commute 23 miles to work in NJ everyday. Moving back to PA has been great for me. Lower taxes, cheaper housing (which allowed me to purchase my first home, something I could not even aspire for in NJ), and I am only 37 miles from my family in Honesdale.
Even seeing this issue from both sides, I see the reasons locals dislike the huge influx of NJ/NY tourists and "transplants". In my opinion these reasons have little to do with racial/cultural, etc. differences (although, as everywhere, there are still some bigoted close minded people around). I see the "city people" coming in here acting like they own the place, they are rude, throw litter out of their car windows, disregard the local laws, and cause a lot of traffic headaches. What makes NEPA nice? In my opinion, it is the friendly locals, the beautiful scenary, the slower pace of life, and the lower cost of living, that is what I see threatened by the influx from NY/NJ. The crime rate has definately increased with this influx. Another downside is that the cost of living is increasing. Even in Honesdale, the locals avoid certain places of business because they "cater to the city people" and are priced accordingly. Most of the locals can't afford the increases in cost of living, the jobs here just do not pay that well.
On the other hand, it is tough because I see their side too. Many people moving here or visiting from NY/NJ come here for the same reasons we live here for (lower taxes, friendly people, cheaper cost of living, beautiful scenery, etc.). I can't blame them for wanting to move away from NY/NJ! Pike county is a hot spot for the exact reason I moved here, it is close enough to commute to my job in NJ, where I can make a reasonable salary.
In the end, what is the solution? I'm not sure, but it makes me really sad that most of the locals don't have any constructive suggestions, they instead prefer to spend their time shunning the "city people" and complaining.
Some of the locals are dumb and sheltered, just like some of the NY/NJ people are rude and condescending. The locals grew up (stereotypically) working in a factory with other Catholics. That's all they know.
I think you see this type of mistrust of wealthier people by blue collar people all over the place. My guess is that in time, as NEPA becomes more of a melting pot, these problems will slowly subside.
If you didn't grow up here, you don't fit in. (I didn't and I don't)
All I know is that in the 13 yrs we have been here, there has been a huge influx from NY/NJ and the amoung of drugs in our neighborhood is staggering.
We are right now caught in the middle (Literally) of a major drug sting - there are three houses surrounding ours that are involved and ALL of the people living in them are from NY/NJ.
That all said, I am originally from Upstate NY. We moved here because it was where my dh found work. No other reason. If he had been able to find a job that allowed me to stay home with our then newborn son in NY, we would have stayed there, handsdown. As it is, we are now looking for a way out of here. As soon as we possibly can. It has become a nightmare town for us.
If you didn't grow up here, you don't fit in. (I didn't and I don't)
All I know is that in the 13 yrs we have been here, there has been a huge influx from NY/NJ and the amoung of drugs in our neighborhood is staggering.
We are right now caught in the middle (Literally) of a major drug sting - there are three houses surrounding ours that are involved and ALL of the people living in them are from NY/NJ.
That all said, I am originally from Upstate NY. We moved here because it was where my dh found work. No other reason. If he had been able to find a job that allowed me to stay home with our then newborn son in NY, we would have stayed there, handsdown. As it is, we are now looking for a way out of here. As soon as we possibly can. It has become a nightmare town for us.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation, even though it is quite a perplexing one to me. Another former forum member, "ScrantonVideoProductions," is a native of Brooklyn and moved to the Upper Hill (Prescott Avenue) with his wife earlier this year. He is now becoming quite active in the city's affairs and is overall pleased with the neighborhood. I've heard nothing but rave reviews from residents of The Lofts @ The Mill in the Upper Hill, as well as nothing but kind words from other friends of mine who have moved to the Hill Section. I always thought the Hill Section was on a rebound with a lot of renovated homes and young professionals moving in. I suppose this is just a shock to my system to hear about what an awful neighborhood it truly is, as I was hoping to move to the Hill Section in a few years to purchase and renovate a home, establish my firm, and raise my family. Perhaps I'll consider Hyde Park instead.
If you didn't grow up here, you don't fit in. (I didn't and I don't)
All I know is that in the 13 yrs we have been here, there has been a huge influx from NY/NJ and the amoung of drugs in our neighborhood is staggering.
We are right now caught in the middle (Literally) of a major drug sting - there are three houses surrounding ours that are involved and ALL of the people living in them are from NY/NJ.
That all said, I am originally from Upstate NY. We moved here because it was where my dh found work. No other reason. If he had been able to find a job that allowed me to stay home with our then newborn son in NY, we would have stayed there, handsdown. As it is, we are now looking for a way out of here. As soon as we possibly can. It has become a nightmare town for us.
The only problem is.......Upperhill......there is just as much crime now in the Binghamton NY area. Speaking of the surrounding towns around there, not especially the city limits at all.
When I go visit my daughter outside of Binghamton , I read of the same exact problems.
I read of robbery, drugs, and even murder.
Far rural places like Chenango, where they are looking for a murderer.
People getting beat up for no reason, just for fun. (?)
You might think going back is your answer. But, when I read the news up that way........it is very simular to here.
Crime is all over now. It is out there and rampant, everywhere.
We need some new laws. Some new ideas in to stopping this horror in all of our wonderful towns.
All of our wonderful, towns being taken over by tough guys, drugs and thugs.
Just what can we do to stop it? Is it even too late?
I'm sorry your not happy. But I don't see a silver lining over that border either.
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Is this the "moxie" I hear of on other states postings, or what?
