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I grew up in Brooklyn and loved it, but it certainly sets a low standard. Especially when you are comparing it to a place like the mountains. Or even where I live in NJ now. And it is part of what bothers the "locals". Our low standard just increases what everyone will put up with. I'm not disagreeing with you. But to us a few people with obnoxious, pumping bass is tolerable because at least they're not selling drugs right out in broad daylight. When others remember a quiet, clean paradise we're glad no one is peeing on the street in front of us. Others remember leaving their cars unlocked with the key in the ignition and we're just glad we can park out cars in front of the house and have it still be there in the morning.
people in the Poconos and Northeast PA, from my experience reading stuff on here and from hearing things when i visit home, are very resentful of the out-of-towners who are moving in, and in some cases, degrading the "country life" that we were all so used to growing up. couple that with the migration of some drug and gang activity to the I-80 and I-78 corridors into PA because of the security behind "gated communities" with few local police and sometimes only state police, and I could see where the negativity comes from. it's exaggerated, no doubt, but that's the outlook you're going to get from people who have lived in many of those area their entire lives.
We found the drivers to be courteous and the traffic to be extremely manageable. We purposely drove during rush hour both days to see the "parking lot" that I-80 could be and everything was wide open. We encountered not one traffic jam in any of our travels, and we pretty much lived in the car for the last 48 hours. All of this is true about our 5 day visit back in late February, as well.
I'd like to take this quote and post in as a response to every thread on the NJ forum that craps on PA drivers. I've been saying what you are saying here for years. And it's funny, because as soon as you cross the Gap into NJ, it's like a coat of a-holeness was dropped on everyone, and the crazy driving begins. I hate driving in NJ, and I absolutely love going for a cruise in PA. lol
I'd like to take this quote and post in as a response to every thread on the NJ forum that craps on PA drivers. I've been saying what you are saying here for years. And it's funny, because as soon as you cross the Gap into NJ, it's like a coat of a-holeness was dropped on everyone, and the crazy driving begins. I hate driving in NJ, and I absolutely love going for a cruise in PA. lol
I find 80 between say Tannersville and the Gap to be at a crawl often on the weekends. I don't do the rush hour commute though. For anyone in NJ to ever make fun of a driver from another state is just hilarious. I lived in NY most of my life, PA for a time and now NJ. And NJ drivers are the worst by far. I can't tell you how often people in my immediate area take down light poles. It's horrifying. But on the drive to PA NY drivers tend to be the worst. They are either stopping traffic in the left lane because they aren't used to ever being able to go more than 45mph or they're doing 90mph because they're "out in the country" and think it's safe to hurtle down the highway at that speed.
I find 80 between say Tannersville and the Gap to be at a crawl often on the weekends. I don't do the rush hour commute though. For anyone in NJ to ever make fun of a driver from another state is just hilarious. I lived in NY most of my life, PA for a time and now NJ. And NJ drivers are the worst by far. I can't tell you how often people in my immediate area take down light poles. It's horrifying. But on the drive to PA NY drivers tend to be the worst. They are either stopping traffic in the left lane because they aren't used to ever being able to go more than 45mph or they're doing 90mph because they're "out in the country" and think it's safe to hurtle down the highway at that speed.
right after you pass Tannersville is where it becomes very windy and you have to slow down. then once you pass the exit for broadheadsville (33S), it clears up a bit. But the remaining people are usually the NJ/NYC folks who were in the poconos for the weekend, and then it begins. the left lane staying clogged for miles - my favorite is passing the gap, then in about 2-3 miles it widens to 3 lanes, and everyone in the left lane moves to the next left lane instead of staying in the center lane. i dunno what it is about NJ, but my dad has learned to just move over to the right and it will usually be clear. he used to complain all the time when he drove out to visit me.
anyways, didn't want to move it all off topic, i just loved what the OP said.
I can see how the NY tourists would be the worst drivers in the Poconos. We were driving slowly, looking at things, getting lost, and generally being annoying tourists, and we weren't honked at once. I couldn't believe how patient everyone was--I don't think a heard a car horn, period, the whole trip. At one point we were sitting at a traffic light near Tannersville and I realized I needed to get over into the right lane to turn. I was looking over my shoulders and trying to see how many cars were in that lane so I could get over there once they were all past, and my husband told me to go--someone was actually letting me merge! I didn't even *think* to look at the car next to me because there wasn't a thought in my head that someone would let me in! LOL. I learned to drive in DC and lived in Miami before coming to NY, so I've never actually been around courteous drivers. It's pretty mind blowing.
I agree with Irish Eyes and Jimazee that one's experience in the Poconos is a matter of perspective. The type of living you would get for $130K in NY or even most of NJ is pathetic compared to what you could get in the Poconos, and that's how I'm looking at things, of course. The median home price in our neighborhood in Brooklyn is over a million dollars, and the standard of living here is still pretty pitiful, as was pointed out. You know you've "made it" around here when you have a dishwasher in your apartment. Having your own full size washer and dryer is a "privilege" reserved for millionaires. I understand the community in the Poconos has changed over the years (not for the better) and the crime rate is rising, but for us, I think it is worth it.
Bradyjp, I appreciate your input. It's interesting to me that in other threads, some posters are dissuading people from moving to NEPA by saying the gangs are so bad you might as well stay in NY...but then they complain that their homes are worth nothing. Quite a few potential buyers on these threads have been scared off by comments like that, which certainly doesn't help property values or the local economy. I hope those potential buyers encounter this thread and more like it, where the viewpoints are more balanced and realistic.
We checked out Lake Harmony, Shohola, Jim Thorpe, and some of the other areas with better reputations, but the extra distance from the city might be too much, and of course, you get less home for your money out there. It's still a consideration.
Last edited by Abundantly_Above; 08-02-2013 at 06:48 PM..
Reason: typo
I can see how the NY tourists would be the worst drivers in the Poconos. We were driving slowly, looking at things, getting lost, and generally being annoying tourists, and we weren't honked at once. I couldn't believe how patient everyone was--I don't think a heard a car horn, period, the whole trip. At one point we were sitting at a traffic light near Tannersville and I realized I needed to get over into the right lane to turn. I was looking over my shoulders and trying to see how many cars were in that lane so I could get over there once they were all past, and my husband told me to go--someone was actually letting me merge! I didn't even *think* to look at the car next to me because there wasn't a thought in my head that someone would let me in! LOL. I learned to drive in DC and lived in Miami before coming to NY, so I've never actually been around courteous drivers. It's pretty mind blowing.
I agree with Irish Eyes and Jimazee that one's experience in the Poconos is a matter of perspective. The type of living you would get for $130K in NY or even most of NJ is pathetic compared to what you could get in the Poconos, and that's how I'm looking at things, of course. The median home price in our neighborhood in Brooklyn is over a million dollars, and the standard of living here is still pretty pitiful, as was pointed out. You know you've "made it" around here when you have a dishwasher in your apartment. Having your own full size washer and dryer is a "privilege" reserved for millionaires. I understand the community in the Poconos has changed over the years (not for the better) and the crime rate is rising, but for us, I think it is worth it.
Bradyjp, I appreciate your input. It's interesting to me that in other threads, some posters are dissuading people from moving to NEPA by saying the gangs are so bad you might as well stay in NY...but then they complain that their homes are worth nothing. Quite a few potential buyers on these threads have been scared off by comments like that, which certainly doesn't help property values or the local economy. I hope those potential buyers encounter this thread and more like it, where the viewpoints are more balanced and realistic.
We checked out Lake Harmony, Shohola, Jim Thorpe, and some of the other areas with better reputations, but the extra distance from the city might be too much, and of course, you get less home for your money out there. It's still a consideration.
I used to hate out-of-state drivers - until I worked in NJ. After working in NJ for one month; I could spot a PA driver a mile away! It is more about familiarity. The longer you live/work in any area; the better you know the roads and 'customs'.
Some of those other communities that you checked have lower taxes than Monroe - but the extra distance would quickly eat up your gain. You might want to check out the Slate Belt (Portland, Mt. Bethel, Bangor and Pen Argyl)? With (especially) Portland and Mt. Bethel you have a very short ride to NJ.
I appreciate your input. It's interesting to me that in other threads, some posters are dissuading people from moving to NEPA by saying the gangs are so bad you might as well stay in NY...but then they complain that their homes are worth nothing. Quite a few potential buyers on these threads have been scared off by comments like that, which certainly doesn't help property values or the local economy. I hope those potential buyers encounter this thread and more like it, where the viewpoints are more balanced and realistic.
the reason some homes may be worth nothing, as you say, is because of where their located AND because of the crime/gangs that HAVE come out here from NJ, NY, and other areas...don't fool yourself...many of us, myself included, have been coming out here for many years so we know what we're talking about...granted there may be a few that exaggerate things but for the most part those of us who are long-time visitors and now residents know what it was like before the mass influx created by Gene P., the 800-WHY-RENT idiot and others...these guys were scammers and liars who suckered a lot of city low/middle-income people into homes they couldn't afford because they weren't knowledgeable about the home buying process and the costs involved in owning a home out here...A Pocono Country Place is a prime example...so don't believe everything you read/hear but most of us here do give fair honest replies to the questions asked and posted here...
The Glen at Tamiment is looking like a good choice for us--the Pike County taxes are a bit lower, as Fisheye mentioned, and since we'd only be going into the city once per week, the 90 mile distance would be okay. I haven't heard a whole lot of negative things about that community (as opposed to A Pocono Country Place, Pine Ridge, Penn Estates, and Saw Creek Estates, which I've read more about.) DavidWebb, I believe you when you say part of the reason that home values are so low in some areas is because of the rising crime. I believe that's probably true in Tamiment, since Bushkill doesn't have the greatest reputation and I'm sure some of the problems there are also present in the Glen at Tamiment.
I'm not certain some of the further out, "safer" communities would be the best fit for us. My husband and I are an interracial couple and we appreciate the diversity of places like Bushkill. I'm not sure it would be worth it to us to drive over 2 hours to a town in which there is less diversity and the residents are mostly locals who are not used to having NYers as their neighbors and might not be as welcoming...especially if the home prices are nearly double what we'd pay in the Glen at Tamiment. I *think* we'd rather have a 4 bedroom single family home on half an acre in Tamiment than a 2 bedroom townhome in Lake Harmony...but we're still weighing the options. I'd hate to drive over two hours and still have to share a wall with neighbors. We want some space!
The Glen at Tamiment is looking like a good choice for us--the Pike County taxes are a bit lower, as Fisheye mentioned, and since we'd only be going into the city once per week, the 90 mile distance would be okay. I haven't heard a whole lot of negative things about that community (as opposed to A Pocono Country Place, Pine Ridge, Penn Estates, and Saw Creek Estates, which I've read more about.) DavidWebb, I believe you when you say part of the reason that home values are so low in some areas is because of the rising crime. I believe that's probably true in Tamiment, since Bushkill doesn't have the greatest reputation and I'm sure some of the problems there are also present in the Glen at Tamiment.
I'm not certain some of the further out, "safer" communities would be the best fit for us. My husband and I are an interracial couple and we appreciate the diversity of places like Bushkill. I'm not sure it would be worth it to us to drive over 2 hours to a town in which there is less diversity and the residents are mostly locals who are not used to having NYers as their neighbors and might not be as welcoming...especially if the home prices are nearly double what we'd pay in the Glen at Tamiment. I *think* we'd rather have a 4 bedroom single family home on half an acre in Tamiment than a 2 bedroom townhome in Lake Harmony...but we're still weighing the options. I'd hate to drive over two hours and still have to share a wall with neighbors. We want some space!
Advice for your commute to the city: Rt. 209N/S on weekends can be a nightmare since it's a 2 lane road and especially bad as you get further down closer to Rt. 80...so I would suggest if you need to get to the city during a weekend go north and hop on Rt. 84E and cut across to the city that way...save yourself a lot of aggravation...although the flea market that was the cause of most of the traffic is now gone it may not be too bad...just keep it in mind when you need to travel about...and keep a good supply of the daily necessities on hand because if you have to go out during that madness you'll be stuck in traffic for quite some time...you might also look into south of the Poconos...I live in Saylorsburg...away from the madness but still close to everything...I'm 5-10 mins from Rt. 33 and have both Rt. 80 and Rt. 78 (which I use for my commute to work) close as well...look around good and take your time because there are deals to be had since it's a buyers market...good luck!!
We checked out Lake Harmony, Shohola, Jim Thorpe, and some of the other areas with better reputations, but the extra distance from the city might be too much, and of course, you get less home for your money out there. It's still a consideration.
I live in Jim Thorpe and commute into the city a few times a week. It's not so bad imo. it's 125 door to door for me (into the Bronx). In the morning I'm on the road before most commuters (4-5am) and it takes me about an hour and 45 minutes. Heading home at the height of the rush stinks and can take upwards of 3 hours at times.
PennDot's currently working on an entrance/exit ramp for the PA turnpike on 903 for the Jim Thorpe area. I don't think it's going to cut much time off my commute but if it's gets me out of 80's rush hour traffic theur Jersey I'll take it.
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