Unsurprisingly, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre #2 in National Sprawl Ranking (Back Mountain, Mountain Top: city hall, houses)

[SteelCityRising]

Well, well, well! It looks as if my incoherent environmentalist ramblings over my nearly three year tenure on this forum weren't so foolish after all. According to a recently released report, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre has the second-highest rate of "job sprawl" in the nation. In other words, only one other area (Poughkeepsie/Newburgh/Middletown, NY) had a higher percentage of jobs being located outside of the metropolitan area's core city.

Granted though this ranking is somewhat misleading; it identifies Scranton as the region's primary city and incorrectly labels Wilkes-Barre as a suburb of Scranton instead of labeling BOTH as co-primary cities. Nevertheless when you look at what's happened to Montage Mountain, Pittston Twp., Hanover Twp., Mountain Top, the Mid-Valley and other large employment concentration areas it should come as no surprise that our region is rapidly divesting itself of job creation in both Scranton and Wilkes-Barre and spreading outwards into the suburbs, destroying our region's natural beauty in the process. If you look at Montage Mountain it should make your blood boil to realize that every white-collar job created there at PNC Bank, MetLife, CIGNA, BoA, Scottrade, etc. could have very easily been located instead in a near-vacant office building in Downtown Scranton. Imagine several thousand more people working in the city core on a daily basis. Existing businesses would have further cemented their profitability, new businesses would have cropped up to latch onto the greater foot traffic, and the busier streets and presence of major corporate logos in our downtown would have given Scranton a more prestigious image. Instead we have a mountain that was ravaged in the name of "progress" while Downtown Scranton sits and rots. What "good" does that do for our region?

Here are some selected texts from the article, and here are some of my rebuttals:

AUSTIN BURKE: “This is not a case where all of the jobs were in Scranton and then got spread out far from downtown and all over the place,” Mr. Burke said.

Mr. Burke, can I point at Montage Mountain? Can I point at the Mid-Valley? Can I point at Center Point? No, "all of the jobs" were NEVER in Scranton, even in the region's heyday; saying so would be irresponsible. However, as long as your Chamber of Commerce PROMOTES the destruction of Downtown Scranton in favor of furthering our sprawl pandemic in the name of "progress" while patting yourself on the back, you really have no right to comment here. You ought to win an award for "spin control!"

The Greater Wilkes-Barre Chamber of Commerce shouldn't be left off the hook here either though. Why did they idly stand by while Solid Cactus rapidly expanded, abandoning Downtown Wilkes-Barre in favor of the Back Mountain? Yes, jobs were created in the region, but at what cost to downtown merchants and restaurateurs who had relied upon the dollars spent by Solid Cactus employees? NO effort was made to keep them in the Diamond City. 600 new positions paying $9/hr. each are headed to Hanover Township for the Sallie Mae call center. Wonderful. I know there are plentiful vacancies in Downtown Wilkes-Barre large enough to accommodate this workforce.

Ms. Kneebone acknowledged defining Scranton as “the anchor to the region” might boost the numbers. She said Wilkes-Barre was defined as if it were a Scranton suburb because it didn’t have at least half as many jobs in its downtown as Scranton has in its downtown.

I don't even have my degree yet, and I know this is false. Downtown Wilkes-Barre employs 14,000. Do you mean to tell me then that Downtown Scranton has well over 28,000 jobs? Just how BROAD of an area are we defining as "Downtown" Scranton? Even with the University of Scranton, Lackawanna College, Diversified, the Federal and county courthouses, City Hall, the hospitals, etc. I don't foresee those numbers swelling to 30,000 people working in Downtown Scranton on a daily basis (perhaps Dan can correct me if I'm mistaken though). The web site promoting Downtown Wilkes-Barre even lists it as being NEPA's "largest employment center." Somebody's obviously fudging numbers here, and as an auditor-in-training I'm going to find out!

She agreed the types of industry that located in the region contributed to its job sprawl.

“In Scranton, the metro has a specialization in manufacturing, in retail, in transportation and warehousing and all of those industries tend to be more decentralized (away from downtowns) on average,” she said. “That might explain why Scranton has over half of its employment more than 10 miles away. That may be a contributing factor.”

Well then can we FINALLY work to start DIVERSIFYING our economy a bit? Not one job created thus far in Center Point in Pittston Township, which sprawls over hundreds upon hundreds of acres, is what I'd consider to be high-tech, white-collar, or high-paying (perhaps a few management-level positions, but that's about it at these distribution centers with the rest paying $10-$14/hr.) Rob Mericle lied through his teeth to me at a Pittston Twp. Board of Supervisors Meeting (probably back in 2007) when he promised me that he was working closely with Wall Street West to bring high-paying jobs to our community to keep college graduates such as myself HERE to raise our families. He never delivered on that promise, and my friends and I are all packing our bags. You're not going to "reinvent" our area with the only job opportunities available being at call centers or warehouses (or Wal-Marts or nursing homes I suppose).

Scranton Mayor Chris Doherty said his emphasis as a mayor has been to reverse the decline of downtown with new employers and housing.

“We recognized it and we’re ahead of it,” he said.

He pointed specifically to the current ongoing renovation of the Connell Building into retail shops, offices and housing and the Lackawanna Avenue renovations.

“We’ve added these downtown. As a result, you’re seeing more employment and educational opportunities downtown,” he said.

The opening of the medical school will only enhance the downtown, he said.

I'll let Dan or Ed take a stab at that one! I'm tired and have a big presentation in the morning!

[Mr Yuk]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

I don't even have my degree yet, and I know this is false. Downtown Wilkes-Barre employs 14,000. Do you mean to tell me then that Downtown Scranton has well over 28,000 jobs? Just how BROAD of an area are we defining as "Downtown" Scranton? Even with the University of Scranton, Lackawanna College, Diversified, the Federal and county courthouses, City Hall, the hospitals, etc. I don't foresee those numbers swelling to 30,000 people working in Downtown Scranton on a daily basis (perhaps Dan can correct me if I'm mistaken though). The web site promoting Downtown Wilkes-Barre even lists it as being NEPA's "largest employment center." Somebody's obviously fudging numbers here, and as an auditor-in-training I'm going to find out!

I'm not so sure that downtown Wilkes-Barre employs 14,000 either. Scranton's downtown is more spread out, and if you're including the hospitals and the university, I would think you have more people working in downtown Scranton than downtown W-B. A lot of people work at the Scranton state office building also.

[W-B proud]

I am more inclined to believe our local Chamber of Commerce who routinely do research on these sorts of local issues rather then a national outfit that is only here doing a story and then leaving. They probably didn't even check out the acual workforce population of downtown Wilkes-Barre, and just assumed it was half of what Scranton's is. That is my opinion. Either way, we alway seem to be at the bottom of the list in jobs and employment, and now at the top of the list for sprawl. I think it is time that we really start questioning our Chambers of Commerce on what is wrong here? Obviously, they aren't doing their job's right, and if not, I think they owe us an explanation on why our region is always the worst e.i. highest unemployment, lowest job growth, lowest paying jobs, most sprawl. These are all embarrassments for our area. We are in last place throughout the state in all these categories. I want to know why?

[W-B proud]

Originally Posted by go phillies

I'm not so sure that downtown Wilkes-Barre employs 14,000 either. Scranton's downtown is more spread out, and if you're including the hospitals and the university, I would think you have more people working in downtown Scranton than downtown W-B. A lot of people work at the Scranton state office building also.

Yeah, but the hospitals and university aren't in downtown Scranton, they are in the Hill Section. If that were the case, then Wilkes-Barre can include everything south of Ross st. down to Blackman street, because technically, that is all buisness and industry type area's, and not residential.

[blip]

The fact that jobs in downtown WB are considered "sprawl" just renders this whole report faulty. Better not to give any attention to it.

FWIW, I'd say our population distribution is pretty unique, not sprawling, centralized, or even dual-anchored, but more of an even, medium-density distribution with our string of small cities and towns.

[MovingOutOfNJ]

If you seperate WB and Scranton.. the Sprawl probably isnt that bad. I live 2 miles from where I work.. and where i work is only about 3-5 miles from downtown WB.

[W-B proud]

Originally Posted by blip

The fact that jobs in downtown WB are considered "sprawl" just renders this whole report faulty. Better not to give any attention to it.

FWIW, I'd say our population distribution is pretty unique, not sprawling, centralized, or even dual-anchored, but more of an even, medium-density distribution with our string of small cities and towns.

Just the fact that they mentioned Wilkes-barre as a Scranton suburb indicates that they did not research our region very well, which makes me wonder about thier whole study all together. Clearly, Wilkes-Barre is it's own city with it's own downtown, it's own suburbs, it's own government bodies, it's own shopping district's. If they missed that HUGE oversight, then how accurate is the rest of study? It makes me wonder if they even came to NEPA at all, or if they did there research from a an office building in NYC or Chicago or something.

[W-B proud]

Originally Posted by go phillies

I'm not so sure that downtown Wilkes-Barre employs 14,000 either. Scranton's downtown is more spread out, and if you're including the hospitals and the university, I would think you have more people working in downtown Scranton than downtown W-B. A lot of people work at the Scranton state office building also.

I don't know. You have to remember though that W-B has two downtown colleges, Blue Cross of NEPA, The Social Security administration, the courthouse and all the county, and city offices, all the social services, two high schools, Frontier Communications, Boscovs. These are all major employers. I can see it being around 14,000, but I'm also pretty sure that they use that figure from "the peek" of W-B's downtown workforce. It probably fluctuates every year, and they probably used a figure from when the workforce was at it's highest point.

[NYRangers 2008]

Paul, you are correct when you say that the companies on Montage Mt. could have very easily been put in downtown Scranton. But, the wage and mercantile taxes are so oppressive, that no business would want to move there and be feasible. The short-sighted administration could have corrected this, but they didn't, which leads me to believe the mayor really doesn't care about the downtown. It's all smoke and mirrors, he'll have everyone concentrate on one area of the city, while the rest of it is falling down around it. And since he has pumped all this money into the downtown, you would think it would be better than it is. In reality, it is not worth all the money and propaganda surrounding it.

[MovingOutOfNJ]

Your absolutely right,

The Wage taxes in Both Downtowns are pretty nasty... 3.4 in Scranton and 3.0 in Wilkes Barre.

And why move into a building in downtown thats more then likely 25 years or older, when they can move into a 2000 or newer constructed building.