Northern Virginia expecting big infusion of road building and transit money (Richmond: flat fee, sales)

[phoenixmike11]

Northern Virginia expecting big infusion of road building and transit money - The Washington Post

looks like some transportation projects are going to get some funding in NOVA

[tysonsengineer]

Yes, unfortunately it all comes from double taxing northern virginia.

You see, the reason why we have all this new funding isn't because of the general package that was passed by Virginia. The one that created a hybrid tax, reduced gas tax but increased sales tax. The reason is because northern virginia also added even more sales tax on top of that, real estate sales tax, and a bevy of other items.

Why did this do this? Well because while Richmond has had some trouble funding some transportation in the state (except of course when it is a freebie to coal companies), Northern Virginia has basically had 0 funds for the past 4 years to building anything new. All new construction has come out of proffer accounts and special taxes like in Tysons.

Guess what the state will give us in 2014? $4000... thats not measured in thousands, thats literally the full dollar amount that Fairfax county will receive in capital funds for the whole year from Richmond.

The reason?

Like I said when it passed, now that NOVA has a special fund, in which we get double taxed to pay for, the rest of the state will just pass the buck and say "they have their own money, let them pay for it" and all the while we will bank roll every other regions capital projects.

Brought to you by a bipartisan group of uneducated hypocrites... aka lawyers

[GustavoFring]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Yes, unfortunately it all comes from double taxing northern virginia.

You see, the reason why we have all this new funding isn't because of the general package that was passed by Virginia. The one that created a hybrid tax, reduced gas tax but increased sales tax. The reason is because northern virginia also added even more sales tax on top of that, real estate sales tax, and a bevy of other items.

Why did this do this? Well because while Richmond has had some trouble funding some transportation in the state (except of course when it is a freebie to coal companies), Northern Virginia has basically had 0 funds for the past 4 years to building anything new. All new construction has come out of proffer accounts and special taxes like in Tysons.

Guess what the state will give us in 2014? $4000... thats not measured in thousands, thats literally the full dollar amount that Fairfax county will receive in capital funds for the whole year from Richmond.

The reason?

Like I said when it passed, now that NOVA has a special fund, in which we get double taxed to pay for, the rest of the state will just pass the buck and say "they have their own money, let them pay for it" and all the while we will bank roll every other regions capital projects.

Brought to you by a bipartisan group of uneducated hypocrites... aka lawyers

I just don't get the attitude towards Nova from Richmond. They're literally cutting of their own nose to spite their face. Just because they hate "them commie liburals up north" doesn't mean they don't like our money. It'll be interesting to see when a pro NoVa governor is elected and how things change.

This current administration is full of the type of ideologues that realllllly can't stand this little pocket of blue. God help us if the Cooch is elected, we'll probably be swapping the state flags for the stars and bars.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by GustavoFring

I just don't get the attitude towards Nova from Richmond. They're literally cutting of their own nose to spite their face. Just because they hate "them commie liburals up north" doesn't mean they don't like our money. It'll be interesting to see when a pro NoVa governor is elected and how things change.

This current administration is full of the type of ideologues that realllllly can't stand this little pocket of blue. God help us if the Cooch is elected, we'll probably be swapping the state flags for the stars and bars.

Sadly, McDonnell was supposed to be that governor, after all he was from this area. Beyond that, this spans many administrations; in fact the last governor I remember who paid proper attention to the needs of NOVA was really Wilder.

That being said, this administration has taken the draining of the well that is NOVA to new extremes especially with the punitive tax that was the new transpo tax; the state tax itself was regressive towards NOVA by adding higher sales taxes (if you havent noticed things cost more in NOVA than elsewhere) while lowering the gas tax (if you havent noticed people in rural regions driver further and have less transit options).

Just looking at the state element (not the local NOVA element)
$4000 for all of fairfax equates to $0.003 per person for the entire year. By comparison I will be paying $80 more next year because I drive a hybrid while only receiving about a $15 reduction in gas tax; on top of paying an additional .3% on all non-food purchases which will easily equate to another $25. I already pay Richmond about $150 per year in Transportation only funds.

So ultimately I will end up paying Richmond $240 and receive back $0.003 in 2014. Let me put that as a percentage; Richmond is going to give back %0.00125 of the money I send it to spend on Fairfax transportation.

That is literally highway robbery

[NovaOne]

The percentages do suck. These types of progressive subsidies occur at every level of the government. Invariably, the group that makes the most money gets to pay for substantially all of the costs for everyone else. I would actually gladly pay more Fairfax county taxes if it is spent on improving the roads and transportation. It is one of the most frustrating aspects of living in this area.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by NovaOne

The percentages do suck. These types of progressive subsidies occur at every level of the government. Invariably, the group that makes the most money gets to pay for substantially all of the costs for everyone else. I would actually gladly pay more Fairfax county taxes if it is spent on improving the roads and transportation. It is one of the most frustrating aspects of living in this area.

It is one thing to be similar to NYC and NY State; where only 30 cents on the dollar go back to the city from state receipts. In NOVA that number is 19 cents on the dollar and plummeting based on the new state wide transportation 6-year plan. The NYC -> NY State debate has always been held as an extreme case of a state cutting funding to the location where funds come from.

Due to current standards NOVA has evidently topped them.

PS if NOVA were to get 30 cents instead of 19 (to be similar to what NYC gets from NYS) that would mean an additional $1 billion every year to Fairfax/Loudoun/Arlington/PWC

Think about what that would mean to our local budgets which have been strangled to death because the counties are having to pick up more and more of the slack for what the state is supposed to be funding with the taxes they reap in.

Of course in the perfect world, if we were to get back 1 dollar on every 1 dollar of taxes taken from us and provided to Richmond, we would actually get back $9 billion extra EVERY YEAR (current deficit is between 2 billion in returned and 11 in paid). In Fairfax alone that would mean an additional 3.5 billion in funds EVERY YEAR. That would effectively double our budget. We could both cut property taxes AND invest in education and infrastructure with that.

[GustavoFring]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Just looking at the state element (not the local NOVA element)
$4000 for all of fairfax equates to $0.003 per person for the entire year. By comparison I will be paying $80 more next year because I drive a hybrid while only receiving about a $15 reduction in gas tax; on top of paying an additional .3% on all non-food purchases which will easily equate to another $25. I already pay Richmond about $150 per year in Transportation only funds.

So ultimately I will end up paying Richmond $240 and receive back $0.003 in 2014. Let me put that as a percentage; Richmond is going to give back %0.00125 of the money I send it to spend on Fairfax transportation.

That is literally highway robbery

You're simply being a pinko commie godless leftie who has ruined virginia by turning it purple (soon to be full on blue). You drive around in your hybrid, all smug that your education has afforded you a nice job in a good part of the state while jimbo in bubbastan is getting the shaft. This new gas tax is a reward for jimbo, so he can drive his suburban 47 miles to walmart every weekend and stock up on Busch Light. You, sir, are the enemy, who are being punished!

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by GustavoFring

You're simply being a pinko commie godless leftie who has ruined virginia by turning it purple (soon to be full on blue). You drive around in your hybrid, all smug that your education has afforded you a nice job in a good part of the state while jimbo in bubbastan is getting the shaft. This new gas tax is a reward for jimbo, so he can drive his suburban 47 miles to walmart every weekend and stock up on Busch Light. You, sir, are the enemy, who are being punished!

Haha :P

God I hope people don't think I am an extreme liberal or something just because, heaven forbid, I think the gas tax was an accurate depiction of road usage and should have been tweaked to track with inflation, instead of this inane shell game of pushing costs from the heavier truck vehicles that cause the most damage onto Hybrids. In the 1980s that kind of logic would have had me labeled as a Neocon Reaganite. Odd how times do change

[Spaten_Drinker]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Haha :P

God I hope people don't think I am an extreme liberal or something just because, heaven forbid, I think the gas tax was an accurate depiction of road usage and should have been tweaked to track with inflation, instead of this inane shell game of pushing costs from the heavier truck vehicles that cause the most damage onto Hybrids. In the 1980s that kind of logic would have had me labeled as a Neocon Reaganite. Odd how times do change

The roads are built to get goods to market, not so "Hunter" can use the roads for his hybrid. It would be great if every town in the state had its own rail spur.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by Spaten_Drinker

The roads are built to get goods to market, not so "Hunter" can use the roads for his hybrid. It would be great if every town in the state had its own rail spur.

Who is hunter? Also your understanding of the operation cost of roads is under-developed.

Goods are moved to market? Thats what sales tax already covers, as well as the freight fees charged on those goods. Those goods are then appropriately priced to the consumer. Therefore each good you are delivered already incorporates the funds necessary to move those goods on public roads. If anything those fees (which have remained stagnant for over a decade should be examined)... then again this governor has been bending over backwards for the freight industries, even building them free infrastructure for buildings.

Secondly, there is the actual dynamics of what causes damage to roadways. Road way fatigue is exponentially attributed (to the 4th power) to weight load. Therefore, it is accurate to say that a hybrid, weighing 1500 pounds, causes 81 times less damage than a 4500 pick up truck and 28,000 times less damage than a 10 ton freight vehicle per mile driven. Therefore they also cause that ratio of the maintenance need on the pavement, as nearly all repaving activities in our region are caused by fatigue on roadway surfaces not frost-heave.

Now you might have a point if you are talking about an electric vehicle perhaps, but for a hybrid, the amount saved on fuel efficiency, and therefore the ratio paid towards the gas tax as compared to for instance a 2 ton truck, is NOT 81 times less; in fact hybrids already pay over 25 times what their comparable gas tax, if based on miles driven and weight, would deem appropriate

Now with the new $80 flat fee, on top of the regular 3.5% gas tax etc, those hybrids will be paying hundreds, I REPEAT HUNDREDS, of times more than what their actual maintenance demand on the road deems necessary.

Get it?