Federal Salary Negotiations -- Is it possible? (house, cost of living)

[Sarah0330]

Hi - Thanks for answering.

I think I misspoke, I don't believe they are always looking for people, I just think right now this past late spring/summer, there has been a bunch of hiring for that particular department.

Glad the VA hasn't pursued me then!

While, obviously the higher GS level is attractive, I guess I will see what FDA actually offers me, because my position has a pretty fancy title, and I believe it could lead to bigger/other things within FDA......whereas, I don't really want to continue working as a paralegal - although this particular department would be AMAZING to work for. Sigh.

really really hard decision.

Though, HR STILL hasn't called me. Tomorrow must be the day!

[Sarah0330]

Is anybody around?

So I received a tentative offer from FDA at GS9 Step 1. That is about $1700 less than I currently make so I asked if they would approve at Step 2 level. I really want this job.

I talked to somebody on the phone and she said no guarantees (obviously), but that I need to write an email officially declining the offer at step 1 to the person who wrote me the email. And then to send my paystubs to her to prove I'm still working and my pay rate.

It really makes me leary and nervous and anxious to do that, to "decline" anything but apparently its just "the process"?????

[mlv311]

Originally Posted by Sarah0330

Is anybody around?

So I received a tentative offer from FDA at GS9 Step 1. That is about $1700 less than I currently make so I asked if they would approve at Step 2 level. I really want this job.

I talked to somebody on the phone and she said no guarantees (obviously), but that I need to write an email officially declining the offer at step 1 to the person who wrote me the email. And then to send my paystubs to her to prove I'm still working and my pay rate.

It really makes me leary and nervous and anxious to do that, to "decline" anything but apparently its just "the process"?????

I hope someone chimes in with more current information since I worked in federal HR long ago. I agree that "declining the offer" doesn't sound right to me. Perhaps what she meant to say is that you will write a letter making your acceptance contingent upon the successful negotiation of a step 2. It's worth trying to show your current pay is more closely matched with the step 2 (if that's the case). However, unless your current job is in the same field and with a similar career progression and benefits, you should carefully consider if it's worth pushing the pay issue too much. After all, you applied for the job at the GS-9/step 1. Good luck.

[gomason]

You can negotiate but Im not exactly sure how the process works. I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle if the pay cut is only $1700 over a year? People take much bigger pay cuts to get in the government.

[ChristineVA]

Originally Posted by mlv311

I hope someone chimes in with more current information since I worked in federal HR long ago. I agree that "declining the offer" doesn't sound right to me. Perhaps what she meant to say is that you will write a letter making your acceptance contingent upon the successful negotiation of a step 2. It's worth trying to show your current pay is more closely matched with the step 2 (if that's the case). However, unless your current job is in the same field and with a similar career progression and benefits, you should carefully consider if it's worth pushing the pay issue too much. After all, you applied for the job at the GS-9/step 1. Good luck.

This is still go info!

I would not use the world "decline" in the response but say something like:

I am tentatively accepting this offer but I would like to negotiate my salary based on my current earnings.


Within the government, this is called "superior qualifications" and you will be asked to fill out a form or a write up to state how your current job duties directly relate to the position you are taking.

Some agencies are very harsh in their interpretation of what "directly relates" means. But basically they do not pay match if you are working as, say, an admin assistant and you are going into a financial field. It must be "apples to apples" experience.

[old fed]

do not use the word "decline" in your email. is $1700 a deal breaker for you? is this offset anywhere else, cost of health insurance, annual and sick leave, future career advancement?

[HB2HSV]

Originally Posted by Sarah0330

Is anybody around?

So I received a tentative offer from FDA at GS9 Step 1. That is about $1700 less than I currently make so I asked if they would approve at Step 2 level. I really want this job.

I talked to somebody on the phone and she said no guarantees (obviously), but that I need to write an email officially declining the offer at step 1 to the person who wrote me the email. And then to send my paystubs to her to prove I'm still working and my pay rate.

It really makes me leary and nervous and anxious to do that, to "decline" anything but apparently its just "the process"?????

Your situation sounds similar to mine but mine happened 7 years ago so no guarantee what has worked for me will worked for you. Also every agency may operate differently.

I was made an offer over the phone then followed by an email but it was a "pre-official" offer (not on an official letter head). I thanked her politely and said I want to think it over. I then called my future boss and asked him if I have room to negotiate the offer. He gave me the green light to "negotiate away". I then called back to the HR lady and said I would like to counter the offer. She then told me that they "do not negotiate" and I will need to decline the offer. I then declined the offer right there and explained that the offer was less than my current salary by a significant amount. I will not be able to accept this offer. She then said if I can provide documentation to support my claim which can include a combination of most recent pay stub, bonus, and cash awards. I then emailed her the supporting documentation. A couple of days later, she called and offered to match my salary plus put me in next higher step of the grade level. I verbally accepted the offer and she followed up with an official letter with government letterhead. In my case, the initial offer was GS 14 step 1 and the final offer was GS 14 step 10. There was no way I was going to take the first offer.

Just my opinion but I think the "officially decline the offer" is just government HR SOP. The risk is low that they would not take your supporting documents to justify one step increase. But if you are worried about missing this opportunity, you can take comfort in that in one year you will be promoted to GS-11 step 1 regardless if you are in GS-9 step 1 or step 2 the first year. You will have to make that decision if you'd want to counter the offer.

Best of luck to you.

[Carlingtonian]

I've been a fed for several years now. Here is my advice on your larger question of which job to take (if I'm not too late):

Yes, in an ideal world, you would work on something that interests you. However, a great measure of your life's happiness will be determined by your manager at your job. A job whose subject matter bores you but comes with a great supervisor and nice coworkers is eminently tolerable. But working under a tyrant, humorless stiff, non-communicator, micromanaging control freak, workaholic, egomaniac, or general nutcase will not make working on an interesting subject worth it. Not only will they be awful to deal with; people attract people like themselves, and a bad manager is drawn to and hires people whose bad characteristics mirror their own. And under a bad manager, even employees who might otherwise be collaborative become fearful, territorial, judgmental, and petty.

In fact, I would say that a good supervisor and good coworkers are even more important than salary, up to a point. If you can't afford to live on a certain salary, that's one thing. If it's just your ego saying you want the higher salary, and you see red flags with the job or the hiring managers, keep in mind three things: 1) As a young person, you have the rest of your career to make money. If you have a massive mortgage and mouths to feed, then money is more crucial than when you're single, up to a point. 2) If you get a higher-paying job and the manager(s) are nutjobs, they might find a way to get rid of you, especially during your probationary period. And then your salary is $0. 3) Remember that within a given grade, there are many steps--so someone who's been a GS-12 for 10 years makes more than a GS-13 who's at step 1 or 2.

In the interview(s), pay GREAT attention to little signals from the people who would be your managers. Were they friendly? Did they have a good sense of humor? A little levity is normal, even expected in an interview. Did they laugh at any point? When you sent your thank-you e-mail(s), did they respond? (Business etiquette does not require them to, but when someone replies with "We enjoyed meeting you, too," you know that's someone with an extra measure of class.) Did they say anything self-deprecating? If they can make fun of themselves, that's excellent. In a group interview, pay the most heed to the person who will end up being your direct supervisor, because that's the one with the most power to ruin your life.

There are crazy people in management positions, and they don't always advertise themselves; you need to be vigilant. If someone seems warm, open, confident, and welcoming, they are probably not crazy. If they seem guarded, humorless, judgmental, or officious--RUN. A job interview isn't supposed to feel like a parole hearing.

Secondly, high turnover is a BAD sign. They will say it's due to something other than people hating the environment--but what do you expect them to say? "Well, to be honest, we're a bunch of micromanagers and backstabbers, and the workload is insane--so that's why people keep leaving." No, they're going to be vague or blame it on reorganization, etc. Unless they can say X person was promoted and X person retired. Sometimes, if a position is capped at a certain grade, you will see a lot of people in that job leave to get a promotion. If that has happened, the hiring managers should just just be honest with you.

[VAFedaspirant]

I got a call from HR for a GS 14 position at step 1 for a tentative offer along with the paper work for BI and finger prints I mentioned my current pay and offered to send my pay stub to verify .He asked me if I ever worked for the Feds I said No he said its a bureaucratic process and delay to to negotiate .I asked him if if I COUNTERED the offer would be rescinded he said NO . and all he said was he will get back to me .He sent an email with this contact info for any more questions .

How should I negotiate ? should I proactively send the 3 pay stubs? or talk to the prospective manager to keep him informed of my current situation ? Please let me know your thoughts ..Thanks

[Carlingtonian]

Originally Posted by VAFedaspirant

I got a call from HR for a GS 14 position at step 1 for a tentative offer along with the paper work for BI and finger prints I mentioned my current pay and offered to send my pay stub to verify .He asked me if I ever worked for the Feds I said No he said its a bureaucratic process and delay to to negotiate .I asked him if if I COUNTERED the offer would be rescinded he said NO . and all he said was he will get back to me .He sent an email with this contact info for any more questions .

How should I negotiate ? should I proactively send the 3 pay stubs? or talk to the prospective manager to keep him informed of my current situation ? Please let me know your thoughts ..Thanks

I'm assuming you currently make more than 14 step 1. In that case, I would send your pay stubs proactively. They should not expect you to take a pay cut.

BTW, compared to most new govies, you're doing very well to get that offer; they routinely start lawyers at GS-12 and -13 in some agencies. In fact, other than doctors and retired colonels, I've never heard of anyone starting in the Civil Service as a 14 or the equivalent.