For those of us in Brambleton (Fairfax: living in, buses, move to)

[sonnymarkjiz]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

the website says they are looking at local bus options as well as the commuter bus. I presume the local bus would run only to the primary activity centers, not to Purcellvile. My sense from life in Fairfax county is that local buses to areas where parking is free tend to attract mostly the "captive" market - those who do not have an auto available (for that particular trip at least), are not able to drive, etc. Typically a semi dense suburb (and Brambleton has a bunch of THs IIUC) with some lower income people (or people whose document status makes it impossible for them to get a drivers license) will have enough ridership to support an infrequent local bus service. Im not sure if Brambleton is there yet - of course if they dont get the ridership, its pretty easy to discontinue the service.

For commuter service, the tradeoff of adding a stop is getting more riders, versus lengthening the trip for the folks coming from farther out (and adding costs, since lengthening the trip means more driver time, and more buses to support a given frequency of service). How many more riders you get will presumably be determined by how much a drive to a more distant stop is a deterrent to using the bus - if its not, then the new stop will cannibalize the existing stops - if it is, than there may be folks who will become riders who currently commute all the way by auto.

certainly its unlikely that LC will attain the levels of transit usage of denser places - but that's no reason LC shouldn't contemplate incremental additions to transit service.

A local bus that goes to the Brambleton/Ashburn/Leesburg/Dulles/Sterling/South Riding area would be ideal. They certainly have a big enough population to get that to work out. I'm guessing it would act like the Fairfax Connector bus.

I'm not even sure if there are taxi cabs around our area.

[South Jersey Styx]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

. . . just cause the 7:30 bus is packed doesnt mean that bus system will be sustainable. . . . .

Sustainable doesn't need to be proven here. This system (and its predecessor) has been operating for 20 years.

Otherwise the average bus load is probably closer to half full during "rush hour" which is 6-10:30 typically for mass transit in the morning yada yada and if it is a full day service it will likely average far worse.

3 runs full do not economically make up for that length of travel if it runs 10 runs empty.

Morning rush buses run 4:30-7:30am. There are dozens of buses in the entire system so no, there are not merely 3 runs filled to 10 that are unfilled. For example, the Purcellville-Hamilton-Leesburg buses to downtown DC have a dozen buses in the a.m. and two dozen in the afternoon. Consider each one filled to capacity or even with standing-room only. Multiply this by 7-8 other runs and there are hundreds of passengers per day, am and pm. Furthermore, there are a few buses that go from Leesburg to West Falls Church (WFC) and some from Broad Run-Cascades to WFC.

Take a look at the schedules and information related to this system: Commuter Bus Schedules (http://www.loudoun.gov/Default.aspx?tabid=969 - broken link)

Hopefully this may relieve some of the naive assumptions you have and inform you about something you have not experienced. I am not sure why you feel the need to criticize a system that provides efficient and affordable service and, among other things, keeps hundreds of residents off of the already-clogged highways in NoVA.

[Caladium]

There's a commuter lot at the end of Lowes Island Blvd, which is the main street in my development. The lot fills up and the buses are packed everyday. I also see people walking to the bus in the morning. There is limited service during mid-day, so you have to be aware of the schedule. It's not like you would just walk up to a bus bench and wait for the next one to arrive. Still, it's not hard to learn how to make the system work for you and a lot of people use it.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by sonnymarkjiz

tysonsengineer is still going at it, eh?

Moderator cut: Off-topic I have no anger towards people who live their lives and do it in their areas, and I applaud Loudoun county for addressing these issues. I have no idea of the logistics of this particular system, but I doubt its fiscally solvent, and it probably attains state funding in some regard or is supplemented by the county. IE the price of admission is not fully funding the venture.

Moderator cut: Orphaned comment

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

I have no anger towards people who live their lives and do it in their areas, and I applaud Loudoun county for addressing these issues. I have no idea of the logistics of this particular system, but I doubt its fiscally solvent, and it probably attains state funding in some regard or is supplemented by the county. IE the price of admission is not fully funding the venture.

1. I dont think the commonwealth subsidizes local bus service, certainly my impression is that FFX connector gets its non farebox revenues from the county budget.

2. Loudoun can probably afford to do this by instituting a meals tax

3. Whether a subsidy is worthwhile is an open question. There are numerous benefits to transit that are not captured in the farebox, but they are not infinite, and they typically correlate with ridership.

[spencgr]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

I have no idea of the logistics of this particular system, but I doubt its fiscally solvent, and it probably attains state funding in some regard or is supplemented by the county. IE the price of admission is not fully funding the venture.

So, if a mass transportation program is not fiscally solvent on its own, without subsidies, it's not worth having?

If so, bye-bye Metro! And now that's even more people driving on your precious Fairfax County roads.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by spencgr

So, if a mass transportation program is not fiscally solvent on its own, without subsidies, it's not worth having?

If so, bye-bye Metro! And now that's even more people driving on your precious Fairfax County roads.

Hey youre not gonna get me arguing on the case against Mass Transit, I'm just warning you Loudouners that nothing comes for free, and the low density styles you guys have is gonna make it tough to create systems like this unless they operate like the Herndon Monroe system that has been in Herndon for a long time. And even then there is a limit to how much you can ask of that system during peak while still having options in non-peak.

[Caladium]

LOL most people I know think increasing mass transportation is a sign of healthy growth. This is the first time I've heard it called a "trick".

[tysonsengineer]

It is a trick, if Loudoun were actually serious about smart growth and relieving traffic they would revise their land use before wasting money on a trick like this. Providing a bus route without addressing the real issues which is suburban sprawl is like putting a bandaid on a bullet wound or like adding an extra lane to a congested route. Eventually it will bleed right through it and eventually it won't be enough.

Moderator cut: Off-topic

[Teebyrd86]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

It is a trick, if Loudoun were actually serious about smart growth and relieving traffic they would revise their land use before wasting money on a trick like this. Providing a bus route without addressing the real issues which is suburban sprawl is like putting a bandaid on a bullet wound or like adding an extra lane to a congested route. Eventually it will bleed right through it and eventually it won't be enough.

why so mean? I am proud of my first place in Brambleton. It is my pride and joy at the moment. Thank you for being so mean to us in Loudoun and calling our homes worthless. Did it ever ocur to you that the same builders that build here also built places in Fairfax in the 90's,00's? Jeeze if you represent the people in Fairfax I am glad I bought here instead.