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I've never understood why anyone cares about things like this. Ethnicity, race, etc. all all contrived, superficial societal differences that should be of no particular consequence to truly open-minded people.
Most of the foreign born in Nebraska are low skilled poorly educated Hispanics, in Fairfax the foreign born are more educated and varied
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Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta
I lived pretty close to Omaha at one point (Nebraska Furniture Mart and Borsheim's anyone?). Omaha is about 70% white, the rest split between blacks and Hispanics. It's more diverse than you apparently think because your image of Obama seems to be "lily white."
Maybe you were thinking small town Iowa -- where I lived for some time too -- where the population can be close to 100% white. And not just white, but almost entirely Western (or Germanic) European (German, English, Scandinavian or Dutch). Outside of the very rural Midwest, however, places like that which are completely devoid of those of Eastern European, Mediterranean, black or Hispanic ancestry have been very rare for some time now.
In any case, my assessment of this area is it IS fairly unique. Most areas that have both high levels of education and ethnic diversity tend to be politically very leftist with all that entails (high urbanization, low marriage rate, low fertility, low church attendance, high Gini coefficient, etc.).
This area, in contrast, is relatively suburban-exurban, has high marriage rates, high fertility, high church attendance, low Gini coefficient and so on. When you have all that AND good Vietnamese, Korean, Indian or [insert ethnic cuisine of choice] food, that's a pretty good deal on top of the excellent economy.
There are plenty of areas in this country where there are sizable populations of non-WASPs of varying flavors. I'd say what's somewhat unusual about NoVA is the relatively high percentage of Asian population, which is rarely seen outside the West Coast and Hawaii. And what Asian population there is in this area tends to be pretty affluent, regardless of their origin status. This area isn't a traditional fresh-off-the-boat feeder like NY or LA.
This might be true, although again, unlike NY or LA, this area doesn't really have ethnic ghettos that absorb lower class immigrants. But you are right that you see some unusual immigrants here such as Mongolians.
Hear, hear. I've lived and worked on three continents and many states in this country, everything from tiny town Iowa in the middle, to NYC/LA on the coasts, from New England village North to small town South.
Bethesdans need to visit Appalachia right at their (and our) backdoor once in a while. After that, terms like "white privilege" will be hard to swallow with a straight face.
Take a short trip to the outer edges of NoVA. Or a nice ride to Hampton Roads. There you will find work crews doing manual labor comprised of half whites and half blacks (Hispanic population is much lower there than here and Asian population virtually nonexistent).
I've never understood why anyone cares about things like this. Ethnicity, race, etc. all all contrived, superficial societal differences that should be of no particular consequence to truly open-minded people.
I understand your stance on ethnicity and I agree that the concept of race is contrived, but in the context of this discussion its more about how the area has developed over time and where its people are from.
There are still divides among people, as there will always be. Although there is great diversity in NOVA, areas will always have unique demographics. Ethnicity isn't the only characteristic of demographics. Today its less about ethnicity- where you live has more to do with your age, education, level and wealth, income, and of course where your family is from.
Race has historical significance because it allows someone to identify where you or your family came from. Over time this becomes less of a factor as we become many generations detached from our origins.
I've never understood why anyone cares about things like this. Ethnicity, race, etc. all all contrived, superficial societal differences that should be of no particular consequence to truly open-minded people.
In theory race, culture, religion, and color would not make any difference and everyone would be completely open to hanging out and befriending everyone regardless of these things. While YOU may not think these things are important, many people do and as a result people will hang out with people just like them.
Another person said it was a question of class and income and education in determining interaction, friendship and communication. That is true to a point but I find that most people in the DC area MOSTLY interact with people from their own race, culture and background regardless of economics.
On the street where I used to live in Fairfax VA, we had a true United Nations of backgrounds. In theory all the different people who mostly spoke good English would use that as a bridge language and interact with each other and learn about each other, befriend each other and share in the immigrant experience. But that did not happen, everyone broke into their own little groups by race, color and culture and had very little to do with each other. That was not the case in the town my brother lives in Iowa where everyone is white on his street. Something to think about?
Im middle eastern, in those statistics I am considered white.
55% of Fairfax is not 3rd generation american white. There is a huge immigrant population of Russians, Middle Eastern, and Eastern Europeans who are considered white but in every respect of life are a cultural and ethnic diversity.
Im middle eastern, in those statistics I am considered white.
55% of Fairfax is not 3rd generation american white. There is a huge immigrant population of Russians, Middle Eastern, and Eastern Europeans who are considered white but in every respect of life are a cultural and ethnic diversity.
I've never understood why anyone cares about things like this. Ethnicity, race, etc. all all contrived, superficial societal differences that should be of no particular consequence to truly open-minded people.
I tend to be pretty "post-racial" -- my own family is pretty mixed up. However, it is patently false that "ethnicity, race, etc. all [sic] all contrived, superficial societal differences... [of] no particular consequence."
Individuals vary and vary a great deal. At the same time, we -- most of us -- share a common humanity... which is why we should always evaluate and treat individuals based on their individual character.
HOWEVER, races do exist as both biological and social phenomena. They are essentially very extended clans (inbred groups of continental origins) that share genetic commonalities. They are not completely discrete and their boundaries do blend into each other, but they are there as larger categories of human family. When we deal with large numbers with social and policy implications (say regional demographics), racial and ethnic traits do obviously come into play.
When you deal with large numbers or racial-ethnic groups in the aggregate, certain tendencies are clearly observable -- certain groups are more prone to criminality, certain groups to academic achievement and so on (and these are social manifestations; there are also biological manifestations like varying maturity rates, testosterone levels, IQ and so on that again, in the aggregate, contribute to different group traits). The point of bringing all this up is this: clearly there are those who think that NoVA is a "model" metro area in that it boasts high educational and income levels, lower criminality, low Gini coefficient, high fertility, high church attendance rate and so on all the while being fairly urbanized. This is a not common confluence of characteristics in most metro areas of the country. In discussing whether the rest of America should or eventually would follow "the NoVA model," it would be remiss in not discussing the ethno-racial distribution of the region, which have impact on the outcome.
When you deal with large numbers or racial-ethnic groups in the aggregate, certain tendencies are clearly observable -- certain groups are more prone to criminality, certain groups to academic achievement and so on.
ILD you lost me when you said this. You have to be kidding me. Lets not point to the clear socio-economic correlation... instead lets point to the far less reliable racial correlation with crime and education right?
I just think back about the 1970s when asians were racially profiled as dumb, violent, unable to fit in with society and clinging to racial division, china towns, etc. Now these are the same things people who don't know what they are talking about use against hispanics or other groups they want to paint with broad brushes.
How you act, violent tendencies, criminal behavior, and education priority are FAR more dependent on where you live, what kind of environment you are surrounded by than what culture or ethnicity you are from. Now go ahead and flash that map of racial correlation to IQ and think that proves anything.
ILD you lost me when you said this. You have to be kidding me. Lets not point to the clear socio-economic correlation... instead lets point to the far less reliable racial correlation with crime and education right?
As much as I would like that to be true, the numbers do not bear that out. Social conditions (especially education levels and poverty rates) obviously have an impact on criminality, but their correlations are weaker than race. You can control for poverty, education and unemployment and the correlation between race and criminality changes very little (from .81 to .78 for example).
It is more likely that the factors which are causing high criminality in population groups are also causing lower leducational level, poverty, and unemployment in the same groups. They are probably mutually reinforcing, not causational.
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I just think back about the 1970s when asians were racially profiled as dumb, violent, unable to fit in with society and clinging to racial division, china towns, etc.
Asian stereotypes of the 1970's were not those of people who were "dumb, violent..." and so on. Even in the 20's and 30's, the primary stereotypes against "Chinamen" were that they were "inscrutable," "sneaky" and "perpetual foreigners" who were alien to the Anglo-American culture. Some of these still persist to a lesser extent. And there is a perfectly rational explanation for the basis of the stereotypes -- even today a large majority of Asians in America are either immigrants or the second generation growing up in homes where English is not the first language.
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How you act, violent tendencies, criminal behavior, and education priority are FAR more dependent on where you live, what kind of environment you are surrounded by than what culture or ethnicity you are from. Now go ahead and flash that map of racial correlation to IQ and think that proves anything.
First of all, IQ does matter.
There is a great variety among individuals within population groups. Obviously where individuals are concerned, circumstances matter and matter a great deal. The majority of people, whatever their race or ethnicity, is not made up of criminals. However, when you look at populations in the aggregate, the law of the large numbers if you will, common traits do emerge and they do exact an influence on the average numbers for the said groups.
I would like to believe the (Platonic) noble lie we constructed for ourselves in modern (or post-modern) America that if we just put the right material resources into certain population segments, they would achieve the same level of educational and career accomplishments as other segments. Neither history nor the statistical evidence, sadly, bears that out.
Returning to the original topic, I actually do not think NoVA is a good demographic model for the rest of America for the simple fact that NoVA-type of demographics are difficult to replicate in the rest of the country. You can no more turn Detroit or Miami into NoVA than turn blacks and Hispanics into Asians (and vice versa), no matter how much federal dollars we pump into the former. There are too powerful biological AND cultural impulses that conspire against such a transformation.
As much as I would like that to be true, the numbers do not bear that out. Social conditions (especially education levels and poverty rates) obviously have an impact on criminality, but their correlations are weaker than race. You can control for poverty, education and unemployment and the correlation between race and criminality changes very little (from .81 to .78 for example)..
Which explains the high crime rates amongst recent African immigrants.
I don't understand the biology behind it. Is there some crime gene associated with skin color? Please explain, Dr. Shockley.
Last edited by CAVA1990; 01-30-2013 at 05:39 PM..
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