The REAL Cost of Living in NoVA/Greater DC (Orange: homes, employment)

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by Fern435

In general, civil servants in NoVA/DC have higher position grades than the equivalent positions/job responsibilities in other parts of the country. A secretary in a GS-11 position in DC would probably be at a much lower grade in other parts of the country. A GS-13 position in Georgia will often be supervising many more people than a GS-13 in DC. An enormous number of these higher paying civil servant jobs are anchored in DC/NoVA/MD, creating the secure job market that is frequently touted on this forum. Making more money is built into these job positions due to the higher cost of living in the NoVA/DC area. This is on top of the locality pay that is intended to compensate for the high cost of living. Now there should be an additional federal subsidy in the form of lower taxes for people who live and work in NoVA/DC?

As many posters tell others who complain about NoVA, if you don't like it, you can choose to leave. People who voted for the current president shouldn't whine about paying high/higher taxes.

Perhaps a tax reform--a flat tax rate--would solve many of these problems.

As it is, the more income one has, the more taxes one is going to pay (in total if not necessarily in %). So it stands to reason that people in the NOVA and the DC metro in general who tend to be more highly compensated than most other places will be paying more taxes.

Regarding a flat tax, I'd be happy to support it: that is, if it's the same rate that the highest income/net worth households already pay. But delving in that subject more deeply would be more appropriate for one of the Economics forums.

[shamrock847]

Originally Posted by Fern435

In general, civil servants in NoVA/DC have higher position grades than the equivalent positions/job responsibilities in other parts of the country. A secretary in a GS-11 position in DC would probably be at a much lower grade in other parts of the country. A GS-13 position in Georgia will often be supervising many more people than a GS-13 in DC. An enormous number of these higher paying civil servant jobs are anchored in DC/NoVA/MD, creating the secure job market that is frequently touted on this forum. Making more money is built into these job positions due to the higher cost of living in the NoVA/DC area. This is on top of the locality pay that is intended to compensate for the high cost of living. Now there should be an additional federal subsidy in the form of lower taxes for people who live and work in NoVA/DC?

Good point about the higher grades in this area - I've seen that too. Plus, there are often better opportunities for advancement here.

Higher taxes are part of the higher cost of living - just like higher housing prices. No different in NYC, SF, or any other higher cost area.

People that are considering a move here need to look at what will happen with all of their expenses (housing, taxes, commute, child care etc.) - not just OMG a $20k raise.

[ACWhite]

Concerns about inequity in the tax code (as articulated in the OP) have nothing to do with whether one likes northern VA. The solution lies with changing the tax code, not with moving, especially given that one would likely take the same income to a new area, or get a higher one there. But to most people, that's probably obvious.

The point is not that people are objecting to higher taxes; the point is that the failure to take into account COL means that what appears on paper to be two identical incomes in fact produces very different outcomes. Thus some people are objecting to paying higher taxes than other people who are relatively better situated financially than they are, when at least the cost of living inequity could easily be corrected if the Congress had a will to do so (which it clearly does not have). Throughout the rest of the tax code there is an attempt, albeit imperfect, to adjust the taxable income to take into account other differences believed to affect ability to pay taxes at the same level of income. For example, within limits, people with high medical expenses, casualty losses, mortgage interest costs, state and local taxes, etc., can deduct them. People with kids can take more exemptions and many deduct or get credits for child care expenses. People with small businesses can deduct many expenses. There is an attempt to treat married vs. single people somewhat equitably. Many more examples exist. None are perfect, but at least there is an attempt to be equitable.

Federal employees are a small % of all employees in Northern VA.

[Fern435]

Originally Posted by ACWhite

Concerns about inequity in the tax code (as articulated in the OP) have nothing to do with whether one likes northern VA. The solution lies with changing the tax code, not with moving, especially given that one would likely take the same income to a new area, or get a higher one there. But to most people, that's probably obvious.

The point is not that people are objecting to higher taxes; the point is that the failure to take into account COL means that what appears on paper to be two identical incomes in fact produces very different outcomes. Thus some people are objecting to paying higher taxes than other people who are relatively better situated financially than they are, when at least the cost of living inequity could easily be corrected if the Congress had a will to do so (which it clearly does not have). Throughout the rest of the tax code there is an attempt, albeit imperfect, to adjust the taxable income to take into account other differences believed to affect ability to pay taxes at the same level of income. For example, within limits, people with high medical expenses, casualty losses, mortgage interest costs, state and local taxes, etc., can deduct them. People with kids can take more exemptions and many deduct or get credits for child care expenses. People with small businesses can deduct many expenses. There is an attempt to treat married vs. single people somewhat equitably. Many more examples exist. None are perfect, but at least there is an attempt to be equitable.
Federal employees are a small % of all employees in Northern VA.

Not sure I agree with the bolded. Most people in NoVA/DC/MD would probably *not* be able to secure another job with the same or higher income to a different part of the country (like Oklahoma or Maine). If it were obvious that the same opportunities for high-paying jobs were available in other regions of the US, we'd probably see fewer people living in/moving to NoVA/DC.

Jobs in the DC region pay more because employers need to attract qualified people who are willing to work and live in a higher COL area.

[stpickrell]

The problem is that someone in fields like IT, finance, etc., could move between mid-sized cities and live like a king in each city -- but opportunities in that field are usually limited in that city. The folks at my contract's alternate site in Altoona PA will commute a good 60-70 miles, just from their home base to Altoona, State College, Johnstown, etc., etc. Likewise I'm sure someone could live in Winchester and be willing to commute to Hagerstown, Frederick, Leesburg, and Harrisonburg, and have an okay choice of jobs.

But occasionally it will all go belly up, and you'll have to leave your region (central PA, Shenandoah Valley, etc.) to look for jobs. Someone might have to bounce around VA, say from Roanoke-Charlottesville-Richmond-Harrisonburg over the course of 15-20 years.

But the sheer volume of jobs in greater DC? Virtually unparalleled. You can stay put in many locations in Loudoun, Prince William, and Fairfax County (and Montgomery, Howard, Frederick, and Prince George's in MD) and have a tolerable commute to a large variety of middle-income/responsibility jobs.

[va_lucky]

I'd rep you 5 times for this post if I could, but had to stop at 1.

Originally Posted by stpickrell

The problem is that someone in fields like IT, finance, etc., could move between mid-sized cities and live like a king in each city -- but opportunities in that field are usually limited in that city. The folks at my contract's alternate site in Altoona PA will commute a good 60-70 miles, just from their home base to Altoona, State College, Johnstown, etc., etc. Likewise I'm sure someone could live in Winchester and be willing to commute to Hagerstown, Frederick, Leesburg, and Harrisonburg, and have an okay choice of jobs.

But occasionally it will all go belly up, and you'll have to leave your region (central PA, Shenandoah Valley, etc.) to look for jobs. Someone might have to bounce around VA, say from Roanoke-Charlottesville-Richmond-Harrisonburg over the course of 15-20 years.

But the sheer volume of jobs in greater DC? Virtually unparalleled. You can stay put in many locations in Loudoun, Prince William, and Fairfax County (and Montgomery, Howard, Frederick, and Prince George's in MD) and have a tolerable commute to a large variety of middle-income/responsibility jobs.

[GustavoFring]

Originally Posted by stpickrell

The problem is that someone in fields like IT, finance, etc., could move between mid-sized cities and live like a king in each city -- but opportunities in that field are usually limited in that city. The folks at my contract's alternate site in Altoona PA will commute a good 60-70 miles, just from their home base to Altoona, State College, Johnstown, etc., etc. Likewise I'm sure someone could live in Winchester and be willing to commute to Hagerstown, Frederick, Leesburg, and Harrisonburg, and have an okay choice of jobs.

But occasionally it will all go belly up, and you'll have to leave your region (central PA, Shenandoah Valley, etc.) to look for jobs. Someone might have to bounce around VA, say from Roanoke-Charlottesville-Richmond-Harrisonburg over the course of 15-20 years.

But the sheer volume of jobs in greater DC? Virtually unparalleled. You can stay put in many locations in Loudoun, Prince William, and Fairfax County (and Montgomery, Howard, Frederick, and Prince George's in MD) and have a tolerable commute to a large variety of middle-income/responsibility jobs.

This is why I'm staying in this area, at least for a while. There's places with better weather and cheaper costs of living, but if my job were to evaporate in those areas, I might struggle to find another one, where as around here I don't even have to look.

[asker]

Originally Posted by lmw36

I move outside of NoVA and I can buy myself a decent home for 200k and under (again, depends what you want). My salary may be 10-15k less, but when I see that my commute is 15 minutes instead of an hour, food is cheaper, my home could be less than half, along with several other factors? I'm not sure it would be worth it to me to ever move back there. I loved the DC area, however I think I'll settle just fine for my sporadic weekend visits now.

May I ask you where you are living now? You could answer by PM if you prefer

Thanks

[va_lucky]

5 Hypothetical reps for this as well!

Originally Posted by GustavoFring

This is why I'm staying in this area, at least for a while. There's places with better weather and cheaper costs of living, but if my job were to evaporate in those areas, I might struggle to find another one, where as around here I don't even have to look.

[va_lucky]

Yes, tell us please if you'd like. Not here to criticize...just learn. Thanks

Originally Posted by asker

May I ask you where you are living now? You could answer by PM if you prefer

Thanks