Nice townhomes for 300K in NoVA near Clarendon

[tysonsengineer]

How much were you spending on the closing costs? If you are deferring the maintenance upkeep through selling every 8 years thats 10k per closing atleast, or 1200 per year. Also you paid a premium on price psf for buying new each time, compared to buying old, again, so you could defer the maintenance upkeep. And you are still not including the free utilities that usually come with $400 COA fees, worth $200 per month easily for a 1200sf unit.

Theres no such thing as free money. One way or another you are paying for the maintenance upkeep or depreciation of the asset. If you dont put new things in a place, it sells for less. If you buy a place with brand new things it costs more. And as I said, there is also the closing costs from being forced to jump around in order to do that.

30 years, for 4 moves is 40,000 in closing by itself, not including the deferred maintenance or depreciation that was part of the sales. And again, you forget that part of that 54,000 was utilities which you did pay for in your townhouse. You also didnt remove the HOA fees you pay for at your townhouse at $50 per month, or gym costs at $30 per month. By the way I think if we are talking about a $400 COA fee then over 30 years thats $144,000 not $54,000.

Closing Cost equivalent - $40,000
HOA cost - $18,000
Gym cost - $10,800
Utilities ($200 per month) - $72,000

That totals $140,000 by itself, not including the impact of buying new in terms of your cost premium, or some of the appliances you had to replace (though I find it hard to believe in the multiple years you lived in your townhomes you never had to spend any money on lawn care (usually $500 easily for most home owners per year), or an AC (can run you more than 5k easily and usually happens once a decade), roof (multiple thousands again); but I'll take your word for that part of it.

You could argue that the closings were alot less early on, but then again 30 years ago COA fees for most places were probably closer to $100... so that again would not be an apples to apples comparison. If someone were to begin doing that today, assuming COA fee increases keep up with the general market, then the $40k in closing costs should be included as an offset for the COA fee over that time.

COA when appropriate do make sense. In the current conditions I'd say if all utilities except cable are paid for, the watershed would be right around $400 per month for when COAs make sense, as proven by the above calculation.

[Middlin]

I appreciate what you're saying, but most people move a couple of times, and the monthly outlay of cash each month can make a huge difference. Frankly, I would never buy a condo. Too much out of my control and ability to assess long term.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by Middlin

I appreciate what you're saying, but most people move a couple of times, and the monthly outlay of cash each month can make a huge difference. Frankly, I would never buy a condo. Too much out of my control and ability to assess long term.

I'll give you that many people move once every decade, but I think you are over estimating the real cost of COA fees definitely by not including the cost of utilities, gym, and typical HOA fees which for most non-condo owners are $300 per month anyways. So really the question is, is the $100 worth the reduced risk of having to fix things like ACs, heaters, roofs, etc. For some the answer is yes, for some its no but its not as clear cut bad deal as you originally stated.

I'd also point out that only a very small percentage of condos have special assessments for one time maintenance costs, and typically the completion of those one time fees increase the equity because it is the equivalent of giving the building a full on face life.

To each their own, I would never ever want to own land property and my own AC, heating, and roof... way too much risk for my appetite and I know a heck of a lot of very happy condo owners in Arlington and New York City who have made a ton of money from being condo owners.

[Middlin]

Exactly, and when I was ready to buy, I did the math. Short term math? perhaps, but knowing this wasn't a place I would stay long term a condo made no sense.

To each his own. Frankly for the biggest investment I'll make, I want to be the one to make decisions on how to improve or fix my own property, decide if I want to rent it out, etc.

In MY experience in this area, all families I know may start with a condo, but eventually trade up to a TH or SFH. I realize that's not the case in a lot of cities and certainly recognize that isn't everyone's desire, but given a choice, a great majority would choose TH or SFH.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by Middlin

Exactly, and when I was ready to buy, I did the math. Short term math? perhaps, but knowing this wasn't a place I would stay long term a condo made no sense.

To each his own. Frankly for the biggest investment I'll make, I want to be the one to make decisions on how to improve or fix my own property, decide if I want to rent it out, etc.

In MY experience in this area, all families I know may start with a condo, but eventually trade up to a TH or SFH. I realize that's not the case in a lot of cities and certainly recognize that isn't everyone's desire, but given a choice, a great majority would choose TH or SFH.

I'll give you that. And definitely no one should be "forced" to live in a home style they dont like. I think some of the people that live in THs would consider high rise living if there were more affordable 3br high rise units, but yes, absolutely agree, that apartments and condos at the end of the day really only can max out around 30-35% of the viable market in this country. Perhaps in a century it will be more similar to Europe in terms of the opposite (a 65-35 split) but thats not going to happen in anyone's life times in this country, and it would be regional if it did similar to NYC.

[slim04]

I'd check out Arlington Village or any of the complexes around Walter Reed & Columbia Pike. That neighborhood has gotten pretty nice the past 5 years or so and is much cheaper than Clarendon or Ballston. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the schools zoned for Clarendon and Ballston are very good, so dual income families are moving into those areas and driving prices up.

Or Fairlington on the Alexandria side or Parkfairfax. I prefer Fairlington on the Arlington side, but it is more expensive.