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Because everyone doesn't want walkable and urban. At least not at the expense of other things
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Originally Posted by reebo
Word. If there wasn't a demand for it, it wouldn't sell. Everyone doesn't have to like the same thing. Jeez.
I suppose Northern Virginia remains behind the rest of the country then, as denser, mixed-use, walkable/bikeable developments have been seeing a massive surge in many other regions, including my own, where thousands of new apartments are under development in the city proper, and many suburban areas are undergoing denser redevelopment.
In an era of surging gas prices; diminishing air quality; increasing traffic congestion; and expanding waistlines I don't see how anyone can make the argument that it's preferable to encourage the development of more low-density sprawling developments in the middle of nowhere---like Broadlands or South Riding---where everyone has to hop into their car to get anywhere meaningful. We just returned from a visit to the Outer Banks and explored in/around Fredericksburg on our way back home. To say I was disappointed at all of the hideous and senseless urban sprawl is an understatement. I don't see how that's a good thing for the region overall.
Part of the reason why traffic sucks so much in/around NoVA is because even if you live way out in Reston or Fairfax there's still tens of thousands of commuters living even further out than you and using your community as a "cut-through" to their own employers in Tysons Corner or Arlington while you're just trying to get groceries on your day off. This is why I can't advocate for the expansion of I-66 through Arlington. Why should the fine people of Arlington have to sacrifice more of their land so people in Gainesville or Haymarket can have easier commutes?
Reston Town Center (RTC) is the BEST example I can think of for a place that comes close to satisfying that "urban" experience in the Dulles Tech Corridor, but even then it's still not "urban". I take it many of you who consider Reston to be "urban" have never lived in the Northeast? Reston is a low-to-medium density suburb with an island of shiny new buildings surrounded by a moat of six-lane (or wider) highways. RTC still seems like an "afterthought"---as if Reston grew to be 60,000+ people and then said (oh yeah, we need a Downtown now, and Lake Anne Plaza just isn't cutting it). It doesn't feel organic, as if it grew together with the community. It feels forced, sterile, and corporate.
I don't consider Reston Town Center Urban, but it provides for a nice walk-able life style for those who are looking for one. Reston has been rapidly changing in the last few years in what it has to offer, the vibe, and the demographics of those who inhabit the area. I would appreciate it if you would refrain from spewing information about Reston that is several years old.
I don't consider Reston Town Center Urban, but it provides for a nice walk-able life style for those who are looking for one. Reston has been rapidly changing in the last few years in what it has to offer, the vibe, and the demographics of those who inhabit the area. I would appreciate it if you would refrain from spewing information about Reston that is several years old.
How rapidly can the entire mentality of the populace of a community of ~70,000 change in a few years? When I lived there I wanted to bang my head against a brick wall trying to argue with entrenched 60-somethings that increased density would lead to less surface street congestion (i.e. Arlington) while everyone balked and ballyhooed about how terrible it would be for sprawling relatively low-density places like Charter Oak or Fairway Apartments to be razed for denser mixed-use development. The mentality of Fairfax Countians seemed to be that "wider roads = less traffic" when you can look at Atlanta or L.A. as case studies of how 16-lane freeways are STILL gridlocked.
Arlington is the most populous "city" (albeit a county) in Northern Virginia. It also has manageable surface street congestion thanks to DENSE development permitting better public transportation infrastructure. Arlington's "dense urban villages" have been widely-studied and widely-lauded by other civic leaders.
Reston has Metrorail now. Great. Guess what? Most Restonians are still going to drive TO the stations because the community is still too sprawled out. Nobody ever used the RIBS buses I saw driving by.
I'm rooting for Reston, but it still has a LONG ways to go before it can be considered "fixed" if so many anti-urban redevelopment NIMBYs still live there.
(Not directed at Reston in particular): When did "an acre of grass, a three-car garage, a backyard pool, and a picket fence" become the "American Dream" when you can also have a small yard, on-street parking, and walkable access to a public pool and public parks/playgrounds where you and your children can meet and interact with others in the community? I pay $700/month in rent (split to $350/month with my partner) and can walk to a beautiful public pool, playground, ball field, skate park, walking track, rec center (with a free gym for city residents) and woods inhabited by deer and wild turkeys. I can also walk to public gardens on vacant city lots that have been reclaimed. Part of living in a COMMUN(e)ity is the COMMUN(e)al aspect where you want to take an active role in going out and meeting other people. Living on a cul-de-sac with your own fortress sort of defeats that purpose, does it not?
I suppose Northern Virginia remains behind the rest of the country then, as denser, mixed-use, walkable/bikeable developments have been seeing a massive surge in many other regions, including my own, where thousands of new apartments are under development in the city proper, and many suburban areas are undergoing denser redevelopment.
Do you think I want to live in an apartment with my 2 kids? You're all about everyone living in a walkable urban setting until me & my family live above you. I'm sure even in your cutting edge city of Pittsburgh there are lots of suburbs that aren't walkable. I think it's great for cities to invest in walkable developments but there still will always be a need for suburbs. Sprawl is unavoidable. The 'rest of the country' is even worse. Do you think anything is walkable in small towns? My wife's family lives in a small town in North Carolina. Far less walkability there than in Northern Virginia. The entire place is sprawl.
How rapidly can the entire mentality of the populace of a community of ~70,000 change in a few years? When I lived there I wanted to bang my head against a brick wall trying to argue with entrenched 60-somethings that increased density would lead to less surface street congestion (i.e. Arlington) while everyone balked and ballyhooed about how terrible it would be for sprawling relatively low-density places like Charter Oak or Fairway Apartments to be razed for denser mixed-use development. The mentality of Fairfax Countians seemed to be that "wider roads = less traffic" when you can look at Atlanta or L.A. as case studies of how 16-lane freeways are STILL gridlocked.
Arlington is the most populous "city" (albeit a county) in Northern Virginia. It also has manageable surface street congestion thanks to DENSE development permitting better public transportation infrastructure. Arlington's "dense urban villages" have been widely-studied and widely-lauded by other civic leaders.
Reston has Metrorail now. Great. Guess what? Most Restonians are still going to drive TO the stations because the community is still too sprawled out. Nobody ever used the RIBS buses I saw driving by.
I'm rooting for Reston, but it still has a LONG ways to go before it can be considered "fixed" if so many anti-urban redevelopment NIMBYs still live there.
(Not directed at Reston in particular): When did "an acre of grass, a three-car garage, a backyard pool, and a picket fence" become the "American Dream" when you can also have a small yard, on-street parking, and walkable access to a public pool and public parks/playgrounds where you and your children can meet and interact with others in the community? I pay $700/month in rent (split to $350/month with my partner) and can walk to a beautiful public pool, playground, ball field, skate park, walking track, rec center (with a free gym for city residents) and woods inhabited by deer and wild turkeys. I can also walk to public gardens on vacant city lots that have been reclaimed. Part of living in a COMMUN(e)ity is the COMMUN(e)al aspect where you want to take an active role in going out and meeting other people. Living on a cul-de-sac with your own fortress sort of defeats that purpose, does it not?
I don't understand why you can't appreciate that, at various points in their lives, some people might prefer:
or
to:
or
First two pics are Reston and Brambleton, followed by two pictures of Polish Hill in Pittsburgh (and what the heck are those cars doing there anyway?)
Different strokes, etc. Keep in mind that posters in recent threads weren't rejecting the desirability of new developments with higher density in NoVa, but only challenging the assertion that "everyone" now wants exactly the same thing - "urban and walkable." Regionally, NoVa is probably a step or two ahead of many areas right now in increasing density. But if you want everyone to roll over and agree that only DC, Arlington and Alexandria are decent places to live around here, you will get push back, and rightly so.
Why does everything in NoVA have to cater to "families" at the expense of the young upwardly-mobile singles who have been flooding into the region, drawn by promising career opportunities by employers who have chosen to site themselves within the Dulles Tech Corridor, who then have very limited (and very expensive at that) options for a place to live that is walkable, dense, mixed-use, urbane, etc.? There are plenty of South Ridings, Broadlands, Landsdownes, etc. all over NoVA. How many Old Town Alexandrias or Orange Line Corridor of North Arlingtons are there in terms of that same scope of population density leading to the ability to live sans car?
Reston Town Center (RTC) is the BEST example I can think of for a place that comes close to satisfying that "urban" experience in the Dulles Tech Corridor, but even then it's still not "urban". I take it many of you who consider Reston to be "urban" have never lived in the Northeast? Reston is a low-to-medium density suburb with an island of shiny new buildings surrounded by a moat of six-lane (or wider) highways. RTC still seems like an "afterthought"---as if Reston grew to be 60,000+ people and then said (oh yeah, we need a Downtown now, and Lake Anne Plaza just isn't cutting it). It doesn't feel organic, as if it grew together with the community. It feels forced, sterile, and corporate.
The inability to find something that was truly urban and walkable at a reasonable price point is the primary reason I relocated to Pittsburgh, which offers great job opportunities, walkability, and half the rent. I've met many other young professionals who have also moved here for the same reasoning. With rare exception every 20-something I met living in a place like South Riding, Broadlands, or Brambleton was very unhappy living there.
You may very well have some good points, but your disdain for and condescension to people who don't agree with you means a lot of people will never finish your posts to read your argument.
How rapidly can the entire mentality of the populace of a community of ~70,000 change in a few years?
I am amazed at the speed that Reston has changed! I don't see why you can't accept what current residents are saying about Reston and keep spewing out your observations from several years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
Reston has Metrorail now. Great. Guess what? Most Restonians are still going to drive TO the stations because the community is still too sprawled out. Nobody ever used the RIBS buses I saw driving by.
How do you know that most Restonians are going to drive to the station? You don't!!!! I tried driving to the staton once and won't be doing it again. I take either the 551/RIBS or bike to and from the station. I was just talking with one of my neighbors at the station last night while we waited for the bus - she drove to the station once and won't be doing it again because the bus service is so dramatically improved. During rush hours there is a bus every 15 minutes from my neighborhood to the station (30 minutes non-rush hours including late nights and weekends).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
I'm rooting for Reston, but it still has a LONG ways to go before it can be considered "fixed" if so many anti-urban redevelopment NIMBYs still live there.
I don't think that Reston wants to be "fixed" into your definition of old-urban. We started at the forefront of planned development and I expect we will continue that way. We are changing fast right now with rapid expansion of Reston Town Center and the area around the Weihle station.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
(Not directed at Reston in particular): When did "an acre of grass, a three-car garage, a backyard pool, and a picket fence" become the "American Dream" when you can also have a small yard, on-street parking, and walkable access to a public pool and public parks/playgrounds where you and your children can meet and interact with others in the community? I pay $700/month in rent (split to $350/month with my partner) and can walk to a beautiful public pool, playground, ball field, skate park, walking track, rec center (with a free gym for city residents) and woods inhabited by deer and wild turkeys. I can also walk to public gardens on vacant city lots that have been reclaimed. Part of living in a COMMUN(e)ity is the COMMUN(e)al aspect where you want to take an active role in going out and meeting other people. Living on a cul-de-sac with your own fortress sort of defeats that purpose, does it not?
I don't have "an acre of grass" (more like 800 square feet), a three-car garage (ok - I have a two-car garage), a backyard pool or a fence. I can walk to five community pools, multiple playgrounds and fields, have a 50 mile trail system right out my back door in beautiful woods full of deer, fox and amazing birds. Reston is a Community! (not a fortresss) Oh and tonight is neighborhood book club night.
First two pics are Reston and Brambleton, followed by two pictures of Polish Hill in Pittsburgh (and what the heck are those cars doing there anyway?)
Different strokes, etc. Keep in mind that posters in recent threads weren't rejecting the desirability of new developments with higher density in NoVa, but only challenging the assertion that "everyone" now wants exactly the same thing - "urban and walkable."
These are beautiful photos and thanks for sharing. However, I do not believe it is a fair comparison of the two areas. Seems like the first two photos are the best of an area and the last two are the worst of an area.
Maybe I am wrong but since we live in Winchester, it would be easy for someone to snap a pic of shoddy areas in one part of town and compare them to Reston and Brambleton. Instead, there are suburban developments here that look similar and/or would blow those two away. And the neighborhoods on the west side have mansions and historic houses from the 1700-1800s+ that you don't see in NOVA.
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Regionally, NoVa is probably a step or two ahead of many areas right now in increasing density.
How so? Please describe. We were just discussing this topic at breakfast this morning.
These are beautiful photos and thanks for sharing. However, I do not believe it is a fair comparison of the two areas. Seems like the first two photos are the best of an area and the last two are the worst of an area.
Maybe I am wrong but since we live in Winchester, it would be easy for someone to snap a pic of shoddy areas in one part of town and compare them to Reston and Brambleton. Instead, there are suburban developments here that look similar and/or would blow those two away. And the neighborhoods on the west side have mansions and historic houses from the 1700-1800s+ that you don't see in NOVA.
How so? Please describe. We were just discussing this topic at breakfast this morning.
I think the pictures of Reston and Brambleton are fairly representative, although the picture of Reston obviously is a bit of a glamour shot.
I spend a fair amount of time in Pittsburgh, and the pictures of Polish Hill are also representative, although a more flattering one (albeit taken from a distance) would be:
From what I've seen, Winchester has a very nice downtown and many beautiful older homes. On the other hand, it also appears to be surrounded by newer suburban construction that is not nearly as nice, in my own opinion, as what you'd typically find in Reston or Brambleton and other parts of Ashburn. I have no doubt that its older areas appeal to someone whose frame of reference consists of small towns or cities in the Mid-Atlantic, but other NoVa suburbs might also appeal to those with different needs and sensibilities.
I think the new construction near a host of Metro stations in addition to the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor (East Falls Church, Dunn Loring, the Tysons stations and Reston-Wiehle) speaks to the interest in building densely near public transit. There are many metropolitan areas that don't have transit networks comparable to Metro, so there's no opportunity for the type of projects such as Mosaic, Tysons, etc. People can debate the aesthetics of these projects, or call them contrived if they wish, but one of their major goals is to allow those who wish to enjoy a less car-dependent lifestyle to do so.
Again, I would hope that people would be respectful of the range of housing found in the region, and not mischaracterize either neighborhoods (i.e., by suggesting that everyone in this area wants an acre of land and a house on a cul-de-sac with a picket fence or, conversely, that everyone craves urban, uber-walkable neighborhoods) or current transit options (i.e., by suggesting that someone taking Metro from Reston would have to change trains at East Falls Church) to advance their agenda.
Last edited by JD984; 09-04-2014 at 11:03 AM..
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