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I can get from a north Vienna neighborhood (in the county) to DC without hitting a traffic light until Constitution Avenue. It's also easy to get to Tysons, McLean or Reston without going through the town.
Wow, I was going to ask about this but I figured no one would want to give up their secrets. How do you get to Tyson's from Vienna without going on 123?
Since 66 seems to always be backed up, what alternatives are there for driving in to DC?
I guess that would depend on one's commute, but the point is that on the north side, one is either somewhere off Lawyers or somewhere off Beulah, and after Church Street in downtown Vienna, you can't go between one and the other until Crowell/Brown's Mill, which is two-thirds of the way to Reston. The situation isn't quite as bad re getting over the creek, but basically, east-west travel on the north side of town is restricted, and on the south side, it isn't. You do get used to it, but this may be something that newcomers would not anticipate.
I agree this might be a minor inconvenience for someone who regularly wants or needs to travel from one neighborhood in the north-side of the Town of Vienna to another neighborhood in the north-side of the Town of Vienna. It doesn't really impact travel or commuting to places outside the Town of Vienna, of which there are quite a few. The town of Vienna is very nice, but it's not the epicenter of the universe, althogh readers of this forum might occasionally be led to suspect otherwise.
Thanks for the info. on south vs. north Vienna, Saganista. Haven't decided yet on either. My husband is in the area today and is going to go driving around to see what he thinks of Vienna in general. I saw that Archer has an after-school Lego Robotics team which is huge in my son's eyes. He's been doing lego robotics classes for a couple years now and has been looking forward to joining a team when he is 9 (the age for First Lego League). I'm not looking at schools solely on test scores - it really helps to hear people's opinions. I wish there were teacher ratings at each school! That to me is more telling than test scores.
I can't remember if it was you or someone else who posted the parks info but that is also really helpful. I'm looking forward to checking all of those out.
The Vienna-to-DC commute itself meanwhile becomes less typical every day, but most who do it would likely be well advised to use Metro, since it is essentially free for most. .
It is not free. My DH gets a pretax deduction for the metro but it still costs us 210.00 a month.
The south side of town is dominated by Vienna Woods, a large development built out during the 1960's after the town switched its main drag from Church Street to Maple Avenue (Route 123). Unofficially, Vienna Woods essentially runs from Park Street west to Nutley, and from 123 south to Cedar Lane. There was quite a bit of population influx during those New Frontier and Great Society days. Anything outside the Beltway was the boondocks back then, so Vienna Woods was essentially the exurb of its day, built with younger government-worker families in mind -- folks who couldn't quite afford the pricier digs of Arlington or McLean. Virtually all of these houses have undergone substantial remodeling and upgrading since the 60's and, as has been mentioned, there has been a good deal of in-fill over the past 10-15 years (most of it quite nice), but this is still a more or less middle to upper-middle class area.
As for the schools, I'd agree that a pyramid not including Luther Jackson MS would be likely to work out better than one that did. For one thing, the school itself is just not in as pleasant an environment. Meanwhile, both Oakton and Madison HS's are excellent. The elementary schools on the south side of Vienna (Marshall Road and Cunningham Park) get a bad rap from those who like to read test scores. The two schools are all but indistinguishable from the north side schools, except in the diversity of students served. CP includes in its district a large and predominantly Hispanic apartment complex which accounts for virtually all of the ESL and subsidized-lunch population. CP also serves the east side of Vienna Woods and about equal numbers from the upscale neighborhoods that lie east of VW. Marshall Road picks up the west side of Vienna Woods, plus the more transient population from the TH, condo, and apartment complexes that spread out from the Vienna Metro station. These too bring a degree of diversity that would not so much be expected or found on the north side of town.
On reflection, I would question some of the characterizations of the Vienna Woods area and the two local schools.
The older houses in the Vienna Woods area in the south of the Town of Vienna typically were built in the 1950s, not the 1960s. Many have been updated, but a fair number of the properties are now showing their age.
If you check the real estate listings in the neighborhood, what you'll generally find are expensive new in-fill properties going for over $1 million, and older, smaller homes now going for under $600K. What's missing in this neighborhood, compared to other parts of Vienna and Fairfax County, are a substantial number of homes in the $600K - $1 million range. Fairfax schools in neighborhoods that have plenty of homes available in those price ranges as well tend to have the higher test scores and better reputations, etc. Some of the upper middle class areas around both McLean and Woodson High are good examples.
For example, one poster mentioned that Marshall Road has a fair number of special education students and that this may drive down the test scores. But Franklin Sherman over in McLean has an even higher percentage of special education students than Marshall Road, and its overall test scores are a good bit higher. In addition, there are other schools in the Vienna area that are at least as ethnically diverse as Marshall Road or Cunningham Park, such as Freedom Hill, but now have higher test scores.
Don't get me wrong - Vienna Woods has probably aged well compared to some of the other post-WW II neighborhoods built around the DC area, because it's conveniently located to job centers and Metro, the schools (particularly Madison High) traditionally have been viewed as strong, and its being part of a town that tries to discourage tacky development is a definite plus. In addition, with a tough economy and many people making conscious decisions to scale back their housing appetites, the smaller homes in the neighborhood may find continued favor with "anti-McMansion" buyers, just as has been the case in recent years in some other neighborhoods, such as Pimmit Hills in Falls Church or Del Ray in Alexandria.
At the same time, it strikes me that there is a risk from the perspective of a current owner or prospective resident that, if the homes continue to age, and the two local elementary schools don't improve their test scores, Vienna Woods will start to look a bit more like some of the older, rough-at-the-edges neighborhoods in, say, Falls Church, such as Tyler Park, and the Vienna name will start to count for a bit less in buyers' minds.
To put this in perspective, here are the GreatSchool ratings (based on year-end standardized tests) for the Vienna-area elementary schools:
Colvin Run (north of town/county) 10
Archer (north side/town) 9
Flint Hill (west of town/county) 9
Westbriar (north of town/county) 9
Wolftrap (north of town/county) 9
Stenwood (east of town/county) 8
Vienna (south side/town) 8
Freedom Hill (east of town/county) 7
Marshall Road (south side/town) 5
Cunningham Park (south side/town) 4
I am sympathetic to those who argue that too much emphasis is placed on test scores, and that parental involvement and the quality of individual teachers are more important factors in a child's educational development. It seems to me, however, that some of my fellow Vienna residents want to have it both ways: they frequently emphasize that schools such as Madison and Oakton High are excellent (presumably, at least in part, because the test scores are high), but turn around and dismiss questions about some of the elementary schools as reflecting the skewed perspective of those "who like to read test scores" or as possibly based on ethnic or racial biases.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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As someone who lives in Vienna and knows quite a bit about the elementary schools, as well as someone who works in testing, I know there is a bit more to look at schools than test scores. Having said that, if I were living outside this area I would look at test scores to compare schools because they are available and give a basis for comparison. But since I live here, I know that test scores do not begin to tell a fair story of the schools. I am not familiar at all with the schools in McLean so don't know anything about Franklin Sherman. At first glance at their test scores, though, I see that their LEP mathematics sample is too small so it drops out. On the other hand, Marshall Road's LEP sample is big enough to show a test score so that would make a difference in test results. And since I live here I know, for example, that ALL of the Level 4 gifted and talented students are bussed out of Marshall Road, Cunningham Park, and Vienna Elementary. Since Cunningham Park and Vienna Elementary are very small schools, it might involve 3-5 students each year. However, at Marshall Road, which is a much larger school, 15-20 students were bussed out of the school consistently each year to take part in the Level 4 Gifted and Talented in other schools until this year (and test scores from this year's 3rd grade are not yet available). In addition, Special Needs kids were bussed in. Does this make Marshall Road's test scores look worse than schools receiving their GT kids? Of course! In the same vein, WolfTrap, Cunningham Park, Vienna Woods, Stenwood, and other schools' Level 4 Gifted and Talent students are bussed into Lousie Archer's school, making Louise Archer's school population 45% GT. Does this inflate Archer's test scores? You betcha. Does that mean a first-grader is getting a better education at Louise Archer than at Marshall Road, Vienna Woods, or Cunningham Park? Not in the least. Don't get me wrong, I know that Louise Archer is a great school, but so are the others. The test scores not only don't tell the whole story, they change the story based on all of the swapping around of students. Putting gifted students in one school and lower-performing students in another school is going to affect scores. Period. I said it before and I'll say it again, you will not go wrong at ANY of the Vienna elementary schools. At least 90% of the education you get is based on the teacher you have. There are good and not-so-good teachers at all of the schools.
It is not free. My DH gets a pretax deduction for the metro but it still costs us 210.00 a month.
For gas, tolls, and parking, perhaps. The top rush-hour Metro fare is $4.50. Two trips a day for 21 days a month comes to $189. SmartBenefits (available through all government and many private sector employers in DC) will cover up to the first $230 per month of your transit costs, tax-free. Even in this worst case scenario, the total out-of-pocket monthly Metro fare would be $0.
But doesn't that mean that the $ you spend on metro is tax free, but you still pay for it from your paycheck. It is a pre-tax deduction from your paycheck like a 401k deduction, so if you pay $200 for transit per month using SmartBenefits and you're in the 25% tax bracket, you still pay $150 a month for the metro.
But doesn't that mean that the $ you spend on metro is tax free, but you still pay for it from your paycheck. It is a pre-tax deduction from your paycheck like a 401k deduction, so if you pay $200 for transit per month using SmartBenefits and you're in the 25% tax bracket, you still pay $150 a month for the metro.
For gas, tolls, and parking, perhaps. The top rush-hour Metro fare is $4.50. Two trips a day for 21 days a month comes to $189. SmartBenefits (available through all government and many private sector employers in DC) will cover up to the first $230 per month of your transit costs, tax-free. Even in this worst case scenario, the total out-of-pocket monthly Metro fare would be $0.
My DH takes a bus to the metro, then transfers. there is no car involved. And 210 a month is taken out of his paycheck before tax once a month.
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