Honolulu has the best Public Transit in the US? (power lines, cost of)

[Manarii_HNL]

Originally Posted by eureka1

Of all the places I have lived, Honolulu and San Francisco have the best public transit.

I think the bus is pretty good. It gets people where they need to go. Many routes come regularly and pretty much on time. I personally love that I can pull up the bus # stop on my phone device and see when the next one is coming via the bus' GPS. It is very accurate. I think Honolulu is pretty much a "cross town" kind of city with 3 major Ewa to Diamond streets, (nimitz/ala moana, King, Beretania), so there is a lot of cross town traffic and a few others. Not as much Makai to Mauka traffic but enough, so maybe that is why it gets its rating, partially due to the layout of the cities and the population density near those streets (ie Kam Hwy). We're an island, most traffic and housing is within a few miles from the coast for a large part. Maybe an odd rating almost like when Hawaiian Airlines wins the Best On-time airline year after year, but how could you not when you are primarily taking off from a sun drenched airport and flying to a handful of West Coast cities vs. an airline that flies all over the place.

One thing that strikes me and I think of it often, is how much variety there is in people taking it. There doesn't tend to be much of a class distinction. It also seems to be quite harmonious with people doing their own thing and not bothering anybody nor any negativity in sitting in the back. Young and old, white and brown skinned. Wide range of people use it.

Originally Posted by Joliefille

1) I don't believe Honolulu has the best public transit system. I'm currently in New York and rode the train into the city last evening. It was filled with a wide variety of people. Commuters, tourists, weirdos.

2) I haven't ridden the bus and probably wouldn't. I would take the rail to the airport, as I travel frequently for work.

3) I agree that class politics are having an effect, at least with those trying to stop the rail. Those are not the same people that have to get up at 4:00 am to travel to their 6:00 am cleaning jobs in Waikiki

If you've never ridden the bus, you probably wont realize it too is filled with a variety of people. Commuters, tourists, weirdos.

Not saying it is the best, but do you even know where it goes on island or how to get somewhere? (or others who are posting who never ride it and have something to say lol?)

I always love how the locals I know can ride their cars to work, but if they had to, know how to get where they need to go on the bus when necessary (and don't have an issue in doing so).

[Joliefille]

Originally Posted by Manarii_HNL

If you've never ridden the bus, you probably wont realize it too is filled with a variety of people. Commuters, tourists, weirdos.

Not saying it is the best, but do you even know where it goes on island or how to get somewhere? (or others who are posting who never ride it and have something to say lol?)

I always love how the locals I know can ride their cars to work, but if they had to, know how to get where they need to go on the bus when necessary (and don't have an issue in doing so).

You're right. I have never taken the bus to work and never will, as a sales rep I drive from place to place every hour or two. The bus or train will never work for people like me. I'm working this week in our HQ in NY, so for this week at least I have a desk job.

I wasn't disparaging bus riders, I was making an observation that any public transportation will have the "commuters, tourist and weirdo's" on it. But even though I don't ride the bus and mostly likely won't be able to utilize the rail, I still am helping to pay for it and support it for those who do use it.

[transitfan]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

I'm surprised nobody chimed in on Honolulu public transit.

Ok, to be the best public transit system in the US in Hawaii I recommend the following:

1. Have a public transit option between the islands. Fine, superferry got people bent out shape. There has to be an alternative. Other than flying commercial air, there is no other option to go interisland. Flight between Honolulu and Hilo are running about $175.
2. Many of the bus stops have no covering from the rain. The news may say a great day ahead - but we get passing showers all the time. Doesn't make a good day to go to or from work if you get a shower.
3. The rail is a start - but barely. Going from Kapolei to Ala Moana is fine - but it should have gone to Waikiki and UH - and also have branches from Ewa and Mililani.

I spent a week in Honolulu in the summer of 1990, and there was a front page article in the paper one day about an earlier rail plan (which I guess was subsequently cancelled) which was going to have two branches east of Ala Moana Center, one to U of H and the other to Waikiki. I think (not 100% sure) that was going to be heavy rail, mostly elevated, with a subway in the downtown section. I forget where the west terminal was going to be. I saved the paper and brought it home following my trip, but it's long gone now, so I can't check the article.

[zoa]

Qualifiers:

1. I am a local haole - born, raised & living on Oahu (where the "best" bus system lives)
2. I have lived in Philly and NYC and CT - so am familiar with the East coast version of mass transit
3. I have used the TheBus off & on during my teens and adult life for both work & pleasure
4. I have lived in town and in the country so my experience has been pretty extensive from the point of view of a rider & a driver

With that said....

What is good about our bus system on Oahu is that it goes all over the island pretty regularly. You can plan where you are going and what you will be doing. Main bus lines travel between the larger communities, and smaller shuttles take you in & out of the harder to reach places.

Back in the 1980's, TheBus (or DaBus) was the de-facto in public transportation and all was good - buses were clean, well maintained and "spiffy" (as one tourist put it). Fares were pretty decent (compared to the mainland city-transit systems) and anyone, from a school kid to a lost tourist, could get on TheBus and get to someplace they recognize - with the help of a bus driver who lived pono, exuding aloha.

In the 1990's, the buses started to show their age so newer buses were brought in... and of course fares went up. Still pretty decent compared to mainland systems - and still went all over the island. However, traffic started to grow in the state as many families prospered - some families owning upwards of 4 or 5 vehicles. With the influx of immigrants from several Micronesian islands of which many (if any) couldn't drive - they crammed onto city buses. Also the growing population really started to tax the city bus system, and new routes, more expresses, more shuttles were added to keep up with the demand.

Many people getting frustrated, started driving again. The crux came when the bus drivers went on strike. Almost everyone, and I mean E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E had to find alternate transportation. Carpools swelled, hi-way lanes became jammed (of course, our main thoroughfares were not built for the growing traffic needs) and overall traffic got stink. Some programs were started, VanPool, HOV lanes, dedicated HOV (Zipper) lane was created. People started riding bicycles - or walking (I walked as I lived in town during that time). The strike, although "humbug" at the time did spur a little bit of alternative thinking to solving the much growing traffic woes here.

In the first decade of 2000, Rail became the buzz. Oahu has the worst traffic in the nation and you cannot talk about "Public Transit" without knowing that fact. It is not Hawaii as a state - but the island of Oahu which is home to the capitol, most of the population, the least agriculture, the most cars, and the highest density for the state. As I mentioned earlier, more people own more cars and work more. Many ways of dealing with the traffic were introduced (swing-hours, building a "second city" to move businesses to, giving tax incentives to smaller businesses to move out of town - which didn't fly long). However Oahu is stuck with the wondrous dream of a paradise (Waikiki) where the money (tourism) is heaviest... so everything gravitates toward that.

Since I've laid the groundwork (which is really the tip of a gargantuan iceberg), we now have rail....

Being run from Kapolei (west side) to Ala Moana (east side) with a potential spur to UH (mauka, or toward the mountains) - you'd think this will solve things and people would be utterly happy. We've been paying additional taxes on this island for this rail. Some businesses along the proposed (approved?!) route have moved, land owners simply paving over the lots in "preparation" to sell to the City & County.... but..... this IS Hawaii.

To understand the love/hate with our public transit system (old, new and proposed), you have to look at our overall growth and development of the transportation network.

Do some research on H3 and why it took just about 30 years (started in 1968, finished & opened in 1997) for a simple 20 mile stretch of elevated highway to be built. Google "Hawaii Ferry" to find out what happened to the Super Ferry... and how that giant project went belly flopping away. Hawaii (Oahu) is full of paradoxes. We want to be the Big Little Metropolis in the middle of the Pacific - we want to be the Hub of Life for the Ring of Fire.

We just don't want to grow is all...

But we must.

Oahu is an island paradise struggling with its growth, suffering from mismanagement and misapplication of funds, ideas and desires. It is sad...


TheBus, is still running. It is still going around the entire island - now we have double-length buses that circulate to densely populated areas or for long-hauling (town to country) to bus workers (on expresses) and tourists (during the day). However, as with most of the nation, we are almost broke, so routes are being cut, changed, and diverted. Ridership is getting cranky - or not riding at all and *gasp* driving more cars.

There is talk of creating an afternoon zipper lane, alternating City & County and State Workers' hours again, even asking Pearl Harbor (the largest industrial employer for the island) to adjust its operational hours (riiiiight). And... Rail.

Its an election year. If one candidate gets his way - all the money collected from us specifically for this project will go...... I dunno. He wants to kill rail and put out more buses, dedicate lanes to these buses, and such what not. The other candidates want to complete rail - but the traffic in the interim will be compounded by construction... and they still have to maintain the roads (potholes are comparable to Rt. 22 through PA in the 1990's - TERRIBLE) or the buses & cars will keep breaking down [which is altogether a whole other story!]. We don't have the room for expanding to dedicated lanes - and the construction necessary to create dedicated lanes would snarl traffic so much - shoot - I'm glad I really can telecommute if I have to.

My employer is moving out of the town area in 2 years to a custom-built facility only 5 minutes from my house - this I look forward to - as I love living country & hate going into town unless it is to stay at a hotel to enjoy a long weekend. We've just settle plans with the architect so now is just a matter of getting the permits from the government. Yes, we are getting a tax-incentive for this move....


Whew.... hope that gives you a taste of what we deal with here... otherwise, you can just go to our local news outlets and keyword search the following:
rail
traffic
transit


a hui hou
~the Z~

[Jenn260]

Originally Posted by OpenD

1) How does it feel to have Honolulu rated as having the BEST public transit system in the country?

2) And, would you ride the bus more often if they'd just ___________ (fill in the blank)?

3) And for bonus points, does this article give you any new insight to the class politics of the planned Honolulu Rail System?

And where are those hoverboards, anyway? We should have them by now!

1) I agree with the other replyers to this thread. That deeming HI to have the best public transit system in the country is false, because it is actually based on population density and not actual efficiency, or whatever. But it feels pretty inaccurate

2) I currently do not have a car, and am FORCED to ride the bus, however, if I were to answer this question as a non-frequent bus rider, I would say "I would ride the bus more often if they'd just KEEP IT CLEAN".

3) For the rail system...I don't quite understand what class politics mean. But if you want my opinion, I am not sure rail will help. Considering that by the time it is done, the amount of cars on the island will increase by so much percent, and rail would only be able to decrease traffic by 1.something%. However, to scale, that means about 48,000something cars. Obviously, I do not know my statistics! But hopefully it makes sense. I am just saying that though it is a lot of cars, comparatively, looking at it as a whole, it is not much. I do hope that the rail doesn't make our island look even worse than it already does!!

I was talking to a man on an airplane once and he had traveled all over the world. All he had to say about Oahu was that it looked like a used car lot....in every part. I was so ashamed. From everyone saying that Hawaii is paradise and great, here is a man who really knows his stuff and gave it to me straight. Though I hated admitting it, he was so right. Though Oahu does have beautiful parts, the main hub area, does resemble a used car lot. But I love it here, I am so lucky. I know that.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by Jenn260

3) For the rail system...I don't quite understand what class politics mean. But if you want my opinion, I am not sure rail will help. Considering that by the time it is done, the amount of cars on the island will increase by so much percent, and rail would only be able to decrease traffic by 1.something%. However, to scale, that means about 48,000something cars. Obviously, I do not know my statistics! But hopefully it makes sense. I am just saying that though it is a lot of cars, comparatively, looking at it as a whole, it is not much. I do hope that the rail doesn't make our island look even worse than it already does!!

I hear what you're saying...but.

If a person likes riding on trains...and reading books, doing whatever they want while sitting on public transportation...it's immensily invaluable to have rail.

If a person has no interest in that, and will only take a car...take in mind that rail won't decrease the extremely heavy congestion on the roads...but, do keep in mind, that being in a car will only be worse and worse and worse every decade for all eternity.

Car-oriented people seem to be fine with that....but people that are rail-oriented...the difference in quality of life is just immense.

[hotzcatz]

I wish Honolulu could imitate Seattle's public transit system. They have buses seamlessly integrated into light rail, heavy rail and small ferries. One card (which you can get electronically refilled at multiple places) lets you ride on each type of transport. The card also keeps track of transfers, too. Vancouver Canada has some wonderful little ferries, although those would only work across very calm water which would basically be Pearl Harbor. I don't see the military being happy with little ferries going across their water.

As far as the inter-island public transport, I'm not sure what that answer would be. A small passenger ship might be nice, but the fast ferries get eaten by the ocean or bureaucratic paperwork. A small freighter which would take cars, produce and people inter-island might be nice, but I doubt it would be cost effective since most of the people are on Oahu without much reason to go outer island very frequently.

[Mikala43]

I don't understand how we can be #1. (I don't even ride the bus though )

Half the bus stops are just a pole, no bench. When they have a bench most don't have a cover. Anyone tell the Da Bus, that's it's either hot as heck out, or raining?

I totally do not understand the rail in the current configuration. One thing I know: when school is out, traffic is light.

Rail won't help that at all. Most people i know, take their cars to work, drop off the kids first, run some errands at lunch, go to Costco, or kids sporting games, etc. after work. Rail won't change any of that.

And even rail proponents admit, when it's complete, there will be no impact to traffic, due to growth.

[MickeyE]

Originally Posted by Horizoncalling

Of course, you are correct. Weather effects is a common statement by riders of public bus transit. Bus stops too, in most locations are just a pole and sign. What if our nation did health care that way and used a post and sign: " Need a doctor? Stand here until..." (as most do not even have schedules) . Many cities use a shelter advertising company that has a cover and bench, with ad poster and schedules. Ad revenues on each shelter give funds for cleaning shelters and even city income (TV ads before cable came - was used for free TV if you had an antenna-remember- now as well in places) . Congested locations should use more buses and smaller "minibus" ones to aid in speed, with shorter/smaller routes, and better access to locations, especially in Oahu. Minibuses carry about 22-25 people each and have wheelchair lifts too where needed. They can go on properties as well, much easier. Interface with bigger buses could work well, if planned well.

Government participation using folks with common sense, is the main issue. Example is the current drought nationwide. Corn crops are severely damaged and will be very small harvests. Feed from that for animals will be less. and more expensive if even available. Corn is used for ethanol mfg as well. A portion of that corn harvest is legally designated for making fuel. Compromise is needed to allow choices that make sense; do we "eat" or do we "drive"? Driving already has gasoline from oil, so using corn for feed, seems better "right now" until the drought hopefully passes this year or next. Makers of ethanol want to stay in business too, so Congress needs to be leaders and ask the nation what direction "we the people" really think best. So far, a rudderless boat is going in circles, so "we the people" must speak up...not only on this public transit but
other concerns as well. Doing nothing but complaining changes nothing

How about we do both? It all depends on how the corn is distilled into ethanol, and the byproducts used. Part of the company I work for, The Andersons, Inc. , is The Andersons Ethanol Group . The byproduct of making ethanol is Distillers Dried Grains distillers dried grain - Google Search and is used as feed for cattle, pigs, etc. It's not just thrown away as a useless byproduct. The google search will give much more information on using DDG as feed.

DISCLAIMER: I work for the retail division at The Andersons | More For Your Home in the electrical department. I sell light bulbs, ceiling fans, lighting and other electrical "things" so I am not an expert in ethanol or DDG. /DISCLAIMER

Mickey

[OpenD]

Checking back in on this thread I started, a couple of things are already clear to me...

1) The headline of the article is misleading. The study actually reported on what they considered the cities with the best ACCESS to transit. And like all such studies, definition of terms is important. They defined it in terms of the average distance per person from a transit stop. And since Honolulu is compact and dense, it ranked more highly than cities spread out over a larger area.

2) A lot of readers of the thread did not read the article before posting.

3) A lot of readers did not read the whole thread before posting.

4) Very few commenters seemed to connect to what is an increasingly strong conversation about urban transit in the US, that buses are cheaper and easier to implement than urban rail, but that urban rail gets attention and funding because buses are widely considered a way for low-class and poor people to get around, whereas rail is seen as more upscale.

Interesting.