Building permit after the fact (Pearl City, Kilauea: apartment, refinance, townhouse)

[Honolulu waku waku]

Hi. I have a townhouse in Pearl City. I had a licensed contractor remove a non-load-bearing wall (as determined before the fact by a licensed engineer). However, I didn't get a building permit for the work. To make it legal, it is possible to get a building permit after the fact? Are there penalties & fees? Are they going to tear open the wall & ceiling to inspect? Any constructive advice is welcome. Thank you.

[Jungjohann]

If it's of no structural significance, and it's a done deal, why would you want to mess with the paperwork? I wouldn't notify the state/county, they'd probably want you to put it back to original state, then apply, so you could tear it down again. If you had a licensed structural engineer already sign off on it, don't bother with the rest. Not worth the possible anguish. Just think Kafka.........

Aloha

[OpenD]

Pay attention to what JJ says. He may be a little wobbly on his feet, and he outgasses like Kilauea, but he does know his construction biz.

You have just discovered the hidden pain in doing structural work without pulling a permit... now that it's done you're damned if you do and damned if you don't try to fix it after the fact.

Unfortunately it's going to be a cloud over any attempt to sell the property or to get a permit for additional work. It could be an issue with your HOA... I honestly don't know how you didn't get busted by them before... and it could mess up attempts at bank financing... and yes, getting an "as built" permit can open a real can of worms, because now you are on the hook for upgrading everything to current code, and that can be messy. Catch 22.

Didn't your contractor warn you about this eventuality? If it does somehow come to the attention to the authorities they could have a license problem as a result. It's definitely not a place I would want to put myself into.

Well, lesson learned, I hope. And good luck with it.

[hotzcatz]

Since jobs such as you described are not inspected before the work is done, you can probably just do the permit paperwork and pretend it wasn't done until after the paperwork is filed. Since it was a wall that was removed, and not a wall that was built, there's probably no need to open any walls. You'll probably want to do it quickly while the contractor and engineer are still available.

Years ago, the "penalty" for building without a permit was twice the permit fee. Which, since that wasn't all that expensive was no big thing.

[WaikikiBoy]

I'm curious what has changed to compell you to be concerned about a permit now after the fact? Is your association requiring it?

Is the structural engeneer lisenced in Hawaii and did he give you a written report ?

[hotzcatz]

Well, if it's a townhouse, then there is probably an AOAO (association of apartment owners) which has zillions of rules and big noses as well. If any of them have turned you in to the Building Department, then filing the paperwork will be a bit more difficult but not un-doable. Drawings made after the work is done are referred to as "as-builts" although in your case, it is actually a demolition permit that you'd be looking for, not a building permit. All you're doing is removing one wall. Was there electrical or plumbing involved? Were the licensed contractors and licensed engineers licensed in the state of Hawaii?

[patandtanya]

We bought our home in late 2007. At the time there was a covered lanai in the front a small lanai on the side and a lanai in the back. The side and back lanais had open trellis roofing. We added onto the lanais and connected them; essentially creating one lanai that starts at the front of the house, wraps around the side, and ends in the back. We also changed the roofing from open trellis to covered roof. Fast forward to today. We are in the middle of a refinance and the appraiser just called me to say that I was supposed to get a building permit for those changes before we made them. She basically said we needed to call the building department for the city. I didn't have a clue about the building department so I did a web search and found this forum. I guess my basic question is, will I have to pay some kind of fine for having built the lanais first? I saw someone mentioned that sometimes they make you tear down the addition, get a permit and then do it again. Is that really a possibility? I'm not looking to skirt the building permit. We seriously didn't realize we needed to have a building permit just to connect the lanais. Any advice on the best way to proceed would be appreciated. Thank you.

[hotzcatz]

The problem with it being done years ago is that the Building Code changes. Since you didn't have a permit to do the work (which locks in which codes the construction has to meet), the work will now have to meet the current codes. It is very doubtful that a roof built years ago will meet current codes so you'll probably have to retrofit more Simpson fittings and possibly make other changes to the roof and lanai to meet the new current code.

You probably won't have to pay a fine since you're trying to get the permit for the work.

So, you find a draftsperson to draw up the lanai, apply for a permit and follow the steps they require. Most likely you'll need a structural engineer or architect to sign off on the drawings, but wait for them to ask. Most likely the easiest way would be to have your draftsperson draw up the plans as if it was new construction. Then take the drawings to the Building Department and apply for the building permit.

Can you have your appraiser do the appraisal and just not include the parts done without a permit? I think that's frequently how things are managed on this island.

[hunterseat]

My contractor guy won't do work that requires a permit unless he pulls one. I don't understand why your licensed contractor didn't do that. If you plan to stay there it should be fine. If you sell it, one day it could raise its ugly head - I think... maybe.. hey, tipsy guy. Could it be a problem for selling?

[SoloPilot]

Unless you think it's going to come to some bureaucrat's attention while you're still there, AND they can show that it wasn't done before you got there, I wouldn't say a thing to anyone.