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I think I'm getting more tired of the constant bickering.
Amen Aloha So realise that your point of view in reality only represents 1/2 of the true demografics of hawaii and let off the reigns a little. You rich represent more then 73% of CDF Hawaii posters when in reality only 33% of Hawaii residents earn more the 100k a year. Also your rich if you own a home in Hawaii unless yours was passed down from generation to generation. The cost of a home in Hawaii today you can buy 2 or 3 homes in some areas for that price.
Not against you personally Dthraco your more balanced then the rest, more a general statement ok.
Last edited by hawaiian by heart; 10-28-2014 at 08:09 PM..
So realise that your point of view in reality only represents 1/2 of the true demografics of hawaii and let off the reigns a little. You rich represent more then 73% of CDF Hawaii posters when in reality only 33% of Hawaii residents earn more the 100k a year.
Have you thought about starting your own forum - perhaps one geared specifically towards poor people in Hawaii - you all can get together and complain about rich people and all feel sorry for yourselves.
owning in Hawaii is not reserved for the rich, but you gotta be a bit smarter about what you're buying, WHERE you're buying, and just exactly what you can adjust to afford this new lifestyle.
my parents and i bought ohana property up in Whitmore. We have two houses, both with separate utilities (so yes, totally separate) but the lot is "grandfathered" for it is smaller than 10k sqft
our mortgage = $500,000 (well, little smaller now that we've owned the property for about 10 years)
our combined income = less than $100k
major and drastic lifestyle changes, but we are not falling behind our bills. we are not buying a whole lotta stuff though - and we spend more time together than ever before. we also grow our own veggies, do our own landscaping, and sell some crafty stuffs on the side (leis, jewelry, etc.) but not so much to make us "rich" in money.
i have a good friend, her home in waimanalo is right on the beach - mortgage about 1mil
she bought the house, fixed it up, is gorgeous (is why mortgage so high)
she lives off of her investments, annual income about $50k
she's not falling behind her bills, actually has some mad money to buy toys (small boat) once in a while
but she doesn't go partying, she grows her own veggies, and has lowered her expenses to the point of almost nil
she spends a lot of time on her little boat, on the beach, or tinkering with her crafts
We are, by no means, "rich" people - - but we are rich in the fact that we plan, take care of our expenses, and have lives that, quite honestly, are rather rewarding. No need get all into this "oh, you have property, you must be rich"
you know what, yeah, I am rich. but not with kala. :P
Last edited by zoa; 10-28-2014 at 10:48 PM..
Reason: fixed typos and added clarity
Yes, you are missing a lot. You need to focus on the affordability of homes, not the cost of homes.
First, median numbers are more accurate. Average values are useless as a relatively small number of absurdly expensive homes can skew the numbers dramatically.
Here are the median resale numbers for the years you provided -
1985 $158,600
1995 $335,000
2005 $590,000
2013 $650,000
Here were the mortgage interest rates and monthly cost to own at that time (assuming 20% cash down) -
1985 15% $1,604
1995 8.5% $2,060
2005 6% $2,830
2013 4% $2,482
Hawaii per capita personal income during that time -
1985 $16,900
1995 $25,600
2005 $34,500
2013 $45,100
Mortgage cost as total percentage of earned income per year -
1985 114%
1995 97%
2005 98%
2013 66%
As you can see, it's cheaper to own now than all years you noted above. In fact it's SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper to own today than it has in many years in the past. Even at today's current median of about $700,000, rates could skyrocket to 7% and it would still be cheaper to own today than it has in 1985, 1995 and 2005... yet people continue to mindlessly spew to the world that things are just too expensive now and life was soooooo much easier "back in the day". It's an excuse for being lazy. So far the "clueless movement" is gaining traction as I see more and more hatred towards those that worked hard and succeeded in life. What a shame.
No disrespect at all, HBH. I'm just here to help dispel the myths many in Hawaii tend to believe. You really need to understand the entire picture before jumping to conclusions.
owning in Hawaii is not reserved for the rich, but you gotta be a bit smarter about what you're buying, WHERE you're buying, and just exactly what you can adjust to afford this new lifestyle.
my parents and i bought ohana property up in Whitmore. We have two houses, both with separate utilities (so yes, totally separate) but the lot is "grandfathered" for it is smaller than 10k sqft
our mortgage = $500,000 (well, little smaller now that we've owned the property for about 10 years)
our combined income = less than $100k
major and drastic lifestyle changes, but we are not falling behind our bills. we are not buying a whole lotta stuff though - and we spend more time together than ever before. we also grow our own veggies, do our own landscaping, and sell some crafty stuffs on the side (leis, jewelry, etc.) but not so much to make us "rich" in money.
i have a good friend, her home in waimanalo is right on the beach - mortgage about 1mil
she bought the house, fixed it up, is gorgeous (is why mortgage so high)
she lives off of her investments, annual income about $50k
she's not falling behind her bills, actually has some mad money to buy toys (small boat) once in a while
but she doesn't go partying, she grows her own veggies, and has lowered her expenses to the point of almost nil
she spends a lot of time on her little boat, on the beach, or tinkering with her crafts
We are, by no means, "rich" people - - but we are rich in the fact that we plan, take care of our expenses, and have lives that, quite honestly, are rather rewarding. No need get all into this "oh, you have property, you must be rich"
you know what, yeah, I am rich. but not with kala. :P
Great post, zoa. I totally agree. Like you, I own no toys. I live a very frugal life as well and have made inordinate sacrifices in life so that I can (one day) retire early and really enjoy the island life as I would prefer. I can't stand people that grumble that they don't have this or have that because the "rich" are taking all the money floating around the world simply because... well, they are RICH. LOL. I haven't taken a vacation in well over a decade and have worked an average 70 hours/week for at least the last 15 years or so. Haven't embarked (yet) on family life as I wanted to have a solid nest egg before taking the family plunge and having children. Very few want to work such long hours, entirely sacrifice all vacation time and postpone having a family until they'll be using a walker at their sons graduation ceremony. My plan is to have a family when I don't have to slave away at a 9-5; I want to spend as much time with my family as possible even if I'll be a bit older when that happens. My friends (and people in general) think I'm loaded and have money pouring out of every orifice just because I own more real estate than the average Joe. But the reality is I am very far from being rich... I am kala-broke just like you!
Pj - please do not let facts get in the way of a good debate.
Home ownership is on the rise in Hawaii versus past decades as it is more affordable than ever to the average person. (Hint, I actually agree with you).
Often people do not want to live within their means, that is where trouble starts a-brewin. There seems to be a large amount of resentment toward those who work hard and make good decisions for themselves in the country these days, ESPECIALLY in Hawaii among long-time residents. Although I suppose it's easier to sit under a tree in Ala Moana with bbq in one hand and 2 liters of Walmart brand soda in the other and complain about those who work hard and achieve, rather than change the circumstances that ended one in such a position. I don't want to hear that "well you must have grown up privileged" nonsense either. I grew up riding around from city-to-city (both mainland and Hawaii) in the back of a 35 year old Chrysler POS that rarely started and burned a gallon of oil a week, but I worked hard, earned scholarships, paid the rest of my tuition myself, earned a MS in electrical engineering, and a BA in accounting with a CPA license (career change), and "made it" on my own.
It's funny, many of my local "friends" who I grew up with became somewhat resentful that I was able to succeed and busted my a$$ on weekends studying, rather than get drunk or high with them all the time (now they sit around in Ala Moana whining about "da rich," many have several kids with several different women, but that's another topic), but I have no regrets as that toxic influence is long behind me and I now associate with much better people. Delayed gratification is something one must begin to understand in their late-teens, and have a thorough understanding in their 20's, or else they will end up in a vicious cycle of failure after failure, and the victim complex sets in, and before you know it they have nothing to show for their "struggles."
I guess I got carried away with that rant, but where I was going is I was able to afford two condos in Honolulu (one I live in part-time when not in Seattle, the other I rent out as it continues to increase in value), as well as a couple in Seattle (again, live and rent), but the lesson I learned was I had to make a lot of sacrifices NOW in order to be in a better financial position "later on." As has been pointed out in this thready already, there is no "housing crisis" in Honolulu, there is a "laziness crisis." Seattle, perhaps, as the market is SO volatile there and massively over-inflated at the moment (it crashed HARD in 2007 when I bought it, now it's probably more expensive than Honolulu temporarily), but Honolulu has always been fairly stable in terms of growth.
Have you thought about starting your own forum - perhaps one geared specifically towards poor people in Hawaii - you all can get together and complain about rich people and all feel sorry for yourselves.
Or maybe you can acually leave or follow T.O.S! Considering the terms of service says that "Real Estate Agents and other businesses will not advertise their services nor solicit business in their posts". Thou you don't accualy say your a real estate agent. You do spin every post in the direction that is only favorable to investments and real estate. I don't know about others but im sick of it. It has nothing to do with being rich, it has everything to do with your character. Further i believe its safe to assume your a real estate invester, with your public statements in the past of owning more then one home or property.
I never statted that it was reserved for the rich. Im saying compared to most of the rest of the country you have to be more well off to own a home or property in Hawaii(excluding BI) like in navada for the price of a home in Oahu you can by 2 or 3 homes in Navada. Further Hawaii is one of the five lowest states for home ownership. Know why?
Again your not telling the whole story. 29.9% of residents in Hawai`i earn over $100,000 per year. At the top of Hawaii’s income bracket, approximately 5.5% of residents reportedly earn in excess of $200,000 yearly.
But “income” doesn’t necessarily predict wealth. Whether or not they’re working, Personal income levels on Oahu are currently 7.3 times higher than they were 40 years ago, while Big Islanders have seen the lowest income growth, at 6.8 times their 1970s rates
In an economy of stagnant wages? It can only mean that as cost of housing and living rises, those who couldn't keep up in the past moved and were replaced by more richer people from the mainland or other parts of the world. Thats my point Hawaii residents for the most point are 7.3 more richer then 40 years ago.
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So realise that your point of view in reality only represents 1/2 of the true demografics of hawaii and let off the reigns a little. You rich represent more then 73% of CDF Hawaii posters when in reality only 33% of Hawaii residents earn more the 100k a year. Also your rich if you own a home in Hawaii unless yours was passed down from generation to generation. The cost of a home in Hawaii today you can buy 2 or 3 homes in some areas for that price. 
