The 3C would be nice for today, right? (Cleveland, Westlake: job market, safe)

[OhioIstheBest]

Originally Posted by Beavercreek33

I am not a typical leftie, so throw your political bias out the window, it makes you look worse than you actually are. I vote for who ever makes the best decision to move this country and state forward, and Kasich is not that person. I am a moderate btw. Would you happen to be some radical republican if you are going to throw people under the bus according to who they like politically?

I clearly don't know you, and you clearly don't know me, and you do not know my voting history, so keep your mouth shut, right?

Yes, and I lived in Philly where they have real transportation options unlike Ohio, so I feel I know a thing or two as well. Have you lived in a major city that benefits from rail and have insight on the topic? That's what I thought....

Don't troll the thread. This is about transportation options in Ohio, I don't care how much you like Kasich. Seriously, if you are going to bi***, do it somewhere else.

LOLs. How much do you drink? The second someone disagrees with you you say they don't what they are talking about and presume to know who they vote for. Then you say others are trolling. LMAO. Put down the Jack Daniels.

By the way, I graduated from Villanova. I know a thing or two about Philadelphia. I think you should move back there. Then you could use the public transportation there and Ohio can run her own affairs.

[austiNati]

Hmmm, is it safe to say that Ohio's rejection of the 3C's rail line is the states biggest FAIL of the 21st century?

[buzzards27]

Originally Posted by austiNati

Hmmm, is it safe to say that Ohio's rejection of the 3C's rail line is the states biggest FAIL of the 21st century?

yeah, SO FAR, but kasich has over three years left to top that.

[buzzards27]

Originally Posted by JR_C

The real average speed would have been closer to 50mph. 39mph was a figure that came out early, before all the studies were complete, and was latched on to by the republicans who wanted to kill the idea.

i often wonder why most repub's continually cite bogus information, like this 39 MPH speed, even after being told over and over they are using bad information. You would think that if they wanted to be taken seriously they would be careful to cite correct data and provide links to their claims.

is it a matter of intentionally spreading deceitful lies to sway the uniformed or are they really lazily listening to their parties talking points and not seeking out verification through additional sources? sadly, i suspect the former...

[insightofitall]

Originally Posted by buzzards27

i often wonder why most repub's continually cite bogus information, like this 39 MPH speed, even after being told over and over they are using bad information. You would think that if they wanted to be taken seriously they would be careful to cite correct data and provide links to their claims.

is it a matter of intentionally spreading deceitful lies to sway the uniformed or are they really lazily listening to their parties talking points and not seeking out verification through additional sources? sadly, i suspect the former...

If you want my humble opinion, it's strictly political. Republicans are contentious solely for the sake of being contentious - just so they can deliberately contradict anything and everything Democrats do. Why do you think they always find a reason to blame Obama for a butterfly farting in Bulgaria? They insist on making the rich richer while not giving a flying fat rat's behind about the poor, even though they claim they care about the little guy. Don't get me started on this.

Oh wait, I already did. Ooops.

[wrightflyer]

Originally Posted by buzzards27

i often wonder why most repub's continually cite bogus information, like this 39 MPH speed, even after being told over and over they are using bad information. You would think that if they wanted to be taken seriously they would be careful to cite correct data and provide links to their claims.

is it a matter of intentionally spreading deceitful lies to sway the uniformed or are they really lazily listening to their parties talking points and not seeking out verification through additional sources? sadly, i suspect the former...

Well, then you suspect wrong. I am only going by what is being published in the newspapers (Dispatch, DDN). This is the first time I have heard of any studies saying the average speed would be anywhere close to 50mph. Personally, as someone who knows how to do research from years of debate, I know for a fact that you can get anyone to say or publish anything. Unless that number comes from a state office, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Oh, and the fact that there is no link to the 50mph study is hypocritical. Information spewing is a two-way street. Unless there is an article dated after the ones I read, citing a state official study, than I can be just as leary of your claim as you are of mine.

[wrightflyer]

'Snail rail' criticism dogs supporters of Ohio's 3C passenger rail plan | cleveland.com

A great example of numbers play. IMO, I hate this because politicians use it for their own advantage, be it a budget concern or this. I think the article makes a great point in its second half of how long it would take (and not even cosidering the costs to do this) to upgrade rails to get the speed up to stanards of the federal government. Whether we like it or not, freight lines have priority and new tracks would have to be built to deal with the different uses.

[Tobias C]

Nothing can change fundamentally when it comes to transportation in Ohio, simply because we dont want it. I think thats what it boils down to. The average Ohioan doesnt care. If the car is faster, the car is the optimal mode of transportation. And theres so many other factors that come into play besides speed of travel too. As Americans we have a love affair with cars. We love that we dont have to share space in a vehicle with strangers. Our car is a big metal fortress of privacy on wheels, protecting us, socially, from everyone else. We love our little isolation chamber on wheels. Theres plenty of things we hate about driving (traffic, bad conditions, bad drivers, etc)....but we accept these things because we cant picture any other way of doing things. The act of driving itself fits the American psyche perfectly well to as its extremely competitive and defensive. Youre always jockeying for position on the road, to the point of getting in an accident, jeopardizing your life, others lifes, and others childrens lives, because you must get where you need to be, regardless of the fact that you probably have a 1 out of 80 chance of getting in an accident of some sort every single time your behind the wheel. Its just worth it to us, because we know no other way.

Ohio is pretty much a moderately conservative state, very little liberal tradition or way of life. The states that will find it easier to implement new, innovative, modes of transportation are those who are most open minded to challenging the status quo to begin with, challenging our current way of life. Thats not a conservative quality. If its understood that we are a conservative state, then it makes sense that we are happy supporting the construction of highways and rejecting other modes. More highways and more lanes equals more space and more freedom and more speed and efficiency, as far as we can fathom (however uninformed it may be). No one will waste their time looking into the various examples in other states of success with rail and how its achieved. Were simply not interested.

I think it maybe would of been wiser to "go big or go home" so to speak, with our plans right from the get go. Whether the 39mph average speed (thats including slowing down for stops and gaining momentum again....not its typical cruising speed) is true or not......I think it would of been nice to have just went balls out from the get go and actually planned for an actual high-speed train (im talking 100+ mph). I completely understand why they didnt, however it would of appealed to the unconvinced masses better, because for those uninformed about rail travel, they can still compare the speed of "that train" = 110 mph to "my car" = 65 mph, and the difference would perhaps be impressive to a lot more people. Not for everyone, but many more would have been "on board" so to speak.

Even still, it really just boils down to the fact that nobodies willing to give it a chance. The expanded plans for the entire Ohio regional hub, would have encompassed the majority of the state in its following phases. If the 3C line didnt seem worthwhile to people, it doesnt help that they were never informed of what else was on the drawing board, following the 3C.

I know one thing though, if you handed me $ 400 million, and said, hey man, I know youre skeptical about it, but just try it. Id be like, okay, ill give you that much. I will spend this money youre offering to see if I can maybe work this out. Not Ohio though.

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by wrightflyer

Well, then you suspect wrong. I am only going by what is being published in the newspapers (Dispatch, DDN). This is the first time I have heard of any studies saying the average speed would be anywhere close to 50mph. Personally, as someone who knows how to do research from years of debate, I know for a fact that you can get anyone to say or publish anything. Unless that number comes from a state office, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Oh, and the fact that there is no link to the 50mph study is hypocritical. Information spewing is a two-way street. Unless there is an article dated after the ones I read, citing a state official study, than I can be just as leary of your claim as you are of mine.

I can't find the PDFs I was thinking of. It's possible they were here: http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Rail/Programs/passenger/3CisME/Pages/default.aspx (broken link)
but that site is no longer accessible to the public.

Anyway, here are a few articles announcing the speed increase from 39 to 50 mph.

Ohio releases faster passenger train schedule | cleveland.com

Ohio releases faster passenger train schedule (http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/ohio-news/ohio-releases-faster-passenger-train-schedule-941509.html - broken link)

State now says 3C train will average 50 mph | Columbus Dispatch Politics (http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/09/25/copy/state-now-says-3c-train-will-average-50-mph.html?adsec=politics&sid=101 - broken link)

[PhillytoCincy]

Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest

LOLs. How much do you drink? The second someone disagrees with you you say they don't what they are talking about and presume to know who they vote for. Then you say others are trolling. LMAO. Put down the Jack Daniels.

By the way, I graduated from Villanova. I know a thing or two about Philadelphia. I think you should move back there. Then you could use the public transportation there and Ohio can run her own affairs.

No, if I don't agree with someone, I don't think they are wrong off the bat, that's just the case with you lol.

I don't care if you graduated from nova, you still clearly know nothing about rapid transit and rail.

Once again, you have nothing worthy of saying, and you already have trolled in my thread. Shut up, and stop trolling. Do it again, and I am reporting you.

Have a nice one, troll.