Is there any hope of the 3C's ever splitting off into separate states (Columbus: neighborhood, schools)

[Linda_d]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I've wondered about this assertion that comes along on these forums all the time too... Seems like common knowledge around here that Cleveland, Buffalo, and Milwaukee are essentially the same exact thing. I don't quite see it...

Rust Belt cities on Great Lake with lots of cloudy weather = "same exact thing".

[Cleverfield]

Yeah, but the difference with those states is that there is only 1 major population center. So things get done, even if it's not what rural NY wants, because the NYC area dominates the electorate. Cleveland has 3 major population centers, all of about equal size, each with different political agendas, and very different cultures. It makes it very difficult to get anything done.

[Linda_d]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

Yeah, but the difference with those states is that there is only 1 major population center. So things get done, even if it's not what rural NY wants, because the NYC area dominates the electorate. Cleveland has 3 major population centers, all of about equal size, each with different political agendas, and very different cultures. It makes it very difficult to get anything done.

You miss your own point. Your original claim was that these cities are too different to live together in the same state, but now you're talking about politics. Politics change over time. Politics in 2013 aren't like they were in 1913 or 1813.

When I'm talking about differences, I'm not talking about politics, but about one city/one area of NYS being an alien place from the other part of the state. Politics is only a small part of that. Ethnic/racial/religious demographics, wealth, culture, even transportation, are tremendously different. It doesn't matter if you live in NYC or somewhere in Buffalo, you generally view how people live in the other part of the state as living in an environment you would have difficulty adjusting to at best. The kindest thing most NYers can say about the part of NY they don't live in is, "well, it's a great place to visit, but I couldn't live there".

FTR, because Upstate is so large, its regions and cities are at least as diverse as Ohio's. The Adirondaks are the largest wilderness area east of the Mississippi, for example, and believe me, Buffalo and Albany are NOTHING alike. Heck, Buffalo and Rochester are very different in look, feel, and politics, and they're only 70 miles apart.

[OhioRules]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

I'm not embarrassed to be from Ohio, I just find it hard to fathom that cities as different as Cleveland and Cincinnati exist in the same state. What other state in the country do you find 2 major cities with such fundamental differences? It creates political havoc, because of the different desires and agendas of each city. If you don't think that Cincinnati is similar to parts of Kentucky then you're deluding yourself. Similarly, if you can't see the similarities between Cleveland, Erie, Buffalo, and Pittsburgh, you're also deluding yourself. NEO has more connection with appalachia than you might think. It sits on the appalachian plateau, and originally was the port city for the pennsylvania oil fields that sat in Appalachia. Lots of West Virginians resettled in Akron and Canton in the 20th century as well. I honestly feel much more similarity when I travel to West Virginia, Western PA, or Western NY from Cleveland than I do with areas South and West of Cleveland.

California, New York, Florida, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Texas, Washington, Virginia.

Off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by OhioRules

California, New York, Florida, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Texas, Washington, Virginia.

Off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.

How many states have 3 major cities of roughly the same size with such big differences?

I think that's what makes Ohio unique. Ohio is the only state by that criteria that I can think of.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by OhioRules

California, New York, Florida, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Texas, Washington, Virginia.

Off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.

Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Washington and Virginia all have 2 or more major cities?

Indianapolis... and... Ft Wayne? That's the only other city of significant size in the state, and it's well under half Indianapolis' population. They're not competing at all. Columbus doesn't compete with Dayton.

Michigan... Detroit and... ? Give it another 50 years and maybe Detroit will be the size of Grand Rapids.

Washington... Seattle and... ? Olympia? Come on.

Illinois... Chicago and nothing else. Springfield doesn't count.

Virginia... You've got Richmond. Are you counting DC suburbs?

I don't really think New York counts either. It's as lopsided as Illinois is.

So you've got California, Texas and Florida, and from what I've seen, those states have a bit of an in-state city rivalry as well. Ohio is easily the smallest in size, so you've got 3 similarly sized major cities packed much closer together.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

How many states have 3 major cities of roughly the same size with such big differences?

I think that's what makes Ohio unique. Ohio is the only state by that criteria that I can think of.

Yep, there really isn't another. You could practically fit the state of Ohio between LA and SF. Texas and Florida may come the closest with Dallas/Houston/Austin and Miami/Tampa/Orlando. But they're not exactly all the same sizes.

[OhioRules]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Washington and Virginia all have 2 or more major cities?

Indianapolis... and... Ft Wayne? That's the only other city of significant size in the state, and it's well under half Indianapolis' population. They're not competing at all. Columbus doesn't compete with Dayton.

Michigan... Detroit and... ? Give it another 50 years and maybe Detroit will be the size of Grand Rapids.

Washington... Seattle and... ? Olympia? Come on.

Illinois... Chicago and nothing else. Springfield doesn't count.

Virginia... You've got Richmond. Are you counting DC suburbs?

I don't really think New York counts either. It's as lopsided as Illinois is.

So you've got California, Texas and Florida, and from what I've seen, those states have a bit of an in-state city rivalry as well. Ohio is easily the smallest in size, so you've got 3 similarly sized major cities packed much closer together.

Who made you arbitrator of what qualifies as a city?? lols.

In Indiana I was comparing Indianapolis to the Chicago suburbs. You ever heard of Spokane? Syracuse? Buffalo?


And the post I responded to did not say the cities were competing. It said they were different. In political philosophy, cultural norms, people's attitudes, that kind of thing.

[OhioRules]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

How many states have 3 major cities of roughly the same size with such big differences?

I think that's what makes Ohio unique. Ohio is the only state by that criteria that I can think of.

The post I responded to did not say "roughly the same size"

And I wouldn't say Cleveland and Columbus are roughly the same size anyway. Cleveland Metro Area is much larger. And it has many sports, entertainment and cultural offerings that Columbus does not.

I would also say Toledo is much, much different from Cincinnati or Columbus. They happen to all be in Ohio but that's about it for commonality. If any city were going to leave Ohio, Toledo would make the most sense.

[Mplsite]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

You're crazy if you don't think Cleveland feels like Buffalo. They're practically a part of a single long city that runs along the southeast coast of Lake Erie. And you can say that the cities/regions work together just fine, but you probably only feel that way if you are a conservative. Because of populous conservative strongholds like Southwest Ohio, Ohio has had a republican led congress for decades, which makes it difficult for more historically liberal areas like NEO to get things that they want accomplished.

Part of the problem is not just that the ultra-conservative, aka out-of-touch suburbs and under-educated rural backwaters are conservative strongholds in SW Ohio, but also NW and plenty of other places throughout the state, especially the burbs. The other much larger problem is that people with half a brain don't get out and vote and so you have big cities essentially under perpetual siege by suburbia and podunk towns.

I now live in a state where the educated urban populace gives the rest of the state the middle finger: we're investing money in dilapidated business districts and neighborhoods (we now coincidentally have way fewer of those per capita than any Ohio city by far), bike infrastructure (all Ohio cities from Cleveland to Cincinnati combined can't compete), trains (two light rail lines and a streetcar coming up soon or more than all Ohio cities), and to all those mean-spirited suburbanites and townfolk we gave them a big f·ck you and legalized same-sex marriage against their will. I suggest moving to a state where the urban population(s) care(s) enough to take the time to vote, because Ohio clearly is not such a state and hasn't been for the longest time. I could never move back.