Setback Changes Will End New Wind Farms in Ohio

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

I think electric motors are brilliant. They can generate an enormous amount of power and can do it cleanly, provided that the electricity was generated from one of your renewable sources. And I think that electric motors are eventually going to be the future.

I get your point, but be cognisant that electric motors do not generate power. They merely convert electrical energy to rotational mechanical energy. The use of electric motors and actuators already outnumbers that of IC engines by an enormous factor (about 10:1). They aren't the future. They're already here. As a matter of fact, the first viable (not conceptual), fuel driven engine was produced in 1860. It's electrical counterpart was developed around 1840.

Just think about how many electric motors are used in the home on a daily basis (vacuum cleaners, fans, blenders, hair dryers, washing machines, dryers, dishwashers, refrigerators, furnace blowers, drill motors, other power tools, electric toothbrushes, etc.) the list is virtually endless. Even the modern automobile has more electric motors (blower, washer pump, wiper motor, power windows, power door locks, fuel pumpsand actuators in it than it does IC engines

There's only one problem - batteries suck. Think about it, all the stuff around you that's battery powered. Remote controls, laptop computers, flashlights, cell phones. I guarantee you in at least one of those cases the battery is either already flat, or very quickly going flat.

Actually, modern Li-Ion batteries can achieve similar power densities as conventional liquid fuels when based on energy transfer efficiency. They clearly do not "suck." However, they are expensive.

Until that's fixed and battery technology improves, wind and solar power are equally unsustainable - because wind has this annoying habit of dying at inopportune times, and last I checked, the sun sets in the west every day.

Well, the wind does continue to blow at night... Also, wind tubines need to be placed where there is consistent activity (like along a lake). Just as coal-fired plants need to be placed away from everything that you don't want to kill. Wind turbines also allow the grid a lot more flexibility as the point generation is more dispersed.

If you wanted to truly make a dent in national energy consumption, you would have to do solar panels on a nationwide scale.

Weren't you just concerned about the absence of the sun and the lack of reliable battery technology?

Install PV panels on every house in the whole country, hook them up to a regulator that allows two-way flow of electricity... allowing surplus generated to flow back into the system, and pulling some from the system when it's needed. Have a computer over at the power plant that can track how much electricity is being used, and then vary the generated amount on a minute-by-minute basis. Allow a credit on the utility bill when you're a net generator of electricity, which could help you offset the cost of installation.

Problem solved.

Trust me when I tell you that it is not even close to being that simple.

[RiverLover11]

Until Hensleya1 responds here, I just want to point out the Number 1 reason our governor & his merry band shouldn't have "paused" green energy in Ohio:

We're the Number 1 state in air pollution.

"Number 1: Ohio

Ohio’s electricity-generation sector emitted more than 36.4 million pounds of harmful chemicals in 2010, accounting for 62% of state pollution and about 12% of toxic pollution from all US power plants. The state also ranked 2nd in industrial mercury air pollution from power plants, emitting almost 4,210 pounds in 2010 (73% of the state’s mercury air pollution and 6% of US electricity sector mercury pollution)."
America's 10 Most Polluted States

"Ohio’s toxic air pollution levels are 36 percent higher than any other state in the country, according to an analysis of Environmental Protection Agency’s Toxics Release Inventory by the Natural Resources Defense Council and the Physicians for Social Responsibility.

Nearly half of all toxic air pollution reported from industrial sources in the United States comes from coal- and oil-fired power plants. Power plants are the largest industrial source of toxic air pollution in 28 states and the District of Columbia.


Toxic air pollution can lead to asthma and other respiratory ailments, developmental disorders, neurological damage, birth defects, cancer and premature mortality, according to the report."
Ohio leads nation in toxic air pollution - Dayton Business Journal


We could've used more clean windmills not less, and throw in some solar panels too! (the technology is such that energy is captured and stored, it doesn't need to be windy or sunny all the time.)


(...Natural gas(methane) doesn't count & wouldn't help. Between the industry practice of "flaring" and regular venting releasing a cocktail of VOCs into the atmosphere, it can be just as bad or worse.)

[ohioaninsc]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

I think electric motors are brilliant. They can generate an enormous amount of power and can do it cleanly, provided that the electricity was generated from one of your renewable sources. And I think that electric motors are eventually going to be the future.

There's only one problem - batteries suck. Think about it, all the stuff around you that's battery powered. Remote controls, laptop computers, flashlights, cell phones. I guarantee you in at least one of those cases the battery is either already flat, or very quickly going flat.

Until that's fixed and battery technology improves, wind and solar power are equally unsustainable - because wind has this annoying habit of dying at inopportune times, and last I checked, the sun sets in the west every day.

***

If you wanted to truly make a dent in national energy consumption, you would have to do solar panels on a nationwide scale.

Install PV panels on every house in the whole country, hook them up to a regulator that allows two-way flow of electricity... allowing surplus generated to flow back into the system, and pulling some from the system when it's needed. Have a computer over at the power plant that can track how much electricity is being used, and then vary the generated amount on a minute-by-minute basis. Allow a credit on the utility bill when you're a net generator of electricity, which could help you offset the cost of installation.

Problem solved.

I actually really like this idea about installing solar panels on every house...how about every building in general...and big solar farms....could power plants install solar panels between their wind turbines?