Why the Tea Party is hurting Ohio (Dayton, Middletown: construction, university)

[SWOH]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

One thing is for certain: There aren't many who understand the full gravity of process implementation and automation.

The implementation of process is not to degrade the type of worker needed to do a task. It's to help and instruct workers with similar skill sets to be more productive by eliminating wasted effort. Now, I know the typical MBA/bean counter thinks any person can do any job (if I had a dollar for every time I've heard that uttered), but the fact is that this could not be any further from the truth in the practical world.

Automation can and should be used where a manufacturing/packaging/shipping process can be streamlined. However, automating any process will have its own pitfalls and areas of expense which don't exist in the human worker's realm. The key is to strike a balance between what the human does well and what the machine can make more accurate or productive.

Simply deciding that either of the two will become more prevalent if wages increase is downright foolish.

Yes and no. I may be a college student, but this is my career field and my family's career field. There's two sides to this coin.

The side you mention is true. Some automation occurs to take stress off our current knowledge workers. For instance, robots that can do intricate surgical procedures instead of a surgeon might be a good example.

A lot more automation occurs to eliminate menial tasks done by unskilled labor. Like package sorting in a DC. It's increasing common for packages to be coded with tags upon entering a DC which enable them to be mechanically sent to their correct location. You would need hundreds of people to do the work of one very expensive machine.

But the issue with DC's or any other industry for that matter is travelling "the last mile" - conquering whatever product nuances exist in the process that the machine cannot complete between the beginning and end of the process. I'm dubbing it as such because "the last mile" is a common logistics problem - how does one get goods from their final storing point to the customer most efficiently? Same applies in almost every automated process.


In a lot of cases, all that's needed to solve this issue is a warm body. Look at an auto assembly line. There are plenty of "inspectors" out there - people who simply stand there and make sure the 20 or 30 nuts and bolts they are assigned to look at were put in correctly by the machine. Doesn't take much to do that job, and honestly that labor is not worth anything above minimum wage. But the person doing that job still needs to eat, and they still need some sort of place to live. Walkable urban communities can maybe solve the issue of transportation, and free public parks and libraries can maybe provide legal ways to spend time outside work. But there is a basic amount of income required for that person to live. Especially if they don't have the skills to move on beyond that job or save for any kind of future, what happens when they get sick or are unable to work?

They need to not be in poverty first.

[SWOH]

Originally Posted by IDtheftV

We are in it now. There is no recovery by past standards and the only reason that the unemployment rate has gone down is the labor participation rate of older middle age workers has dropped by several percentage points.

Every time the suits in Washington come out and trumpet 200k new jobs created, what they are leaving out is that it takes around 300k just to keep up with population growth and that most of the new jobs are of low quality.

The only reason the current depression doesn't seem worse is that welfare roles ( counting the explosion in SS disability recipients ) has been exploding since Bush II took over and continues unabated in the current administration.
Right. I don't much care what they set it at. Probably, just to shut people up, they should set it today at whatever the maximum was in the past - adjusted for inflation - add a buck or so and then adjust it every year for inflation. That way, it would stop the constant fighting about raising it. $7.25/hour in 2014 is less than it was in 2013 and so on since it was set there on July 24, 2009. According to google, the max was $8.56 in 1968.

There will be no barrier to hiring at $9, $10 or whatever. The economy will adjust. Once the rate is on autopilot, we can stop a lot of the arguing. McDonalds and WalMart pay $18/hour in ND and do just fine.

I don't care what they set it at. People that don't want to be paid Min. Wage need to up their game.

My problem is all the miserable $12, 13, 14 and so on jobs out there that pass for skilled these days. My other problem is the lack of tax incentives to train people to make the jump to $20+/hour jobs.

Great points. I'd comment in more detail but I'm in a time crunch. Just wanted to say that though.

[Ten Cat]

Originally Posted by OHKID

Have to agree. Proposing a problem without solutions.... sounds like anything else you hear on 24-hour news.

Despite that, it's a big issue. Our society is creating jobs, but they pay minimum wage. We don't have a need for a ton of engineers anymore, like there was in the '60's with the space race, or finance people, or lawyers (LegalZoom, anyone?), accountants, teachers, etc. Even doctors' work and nurses' work is being simplified to the point where an STNA making $11/hr can do larger and larger pieces of it.

The need for skilled work is evaporating, and nowhere else is it quite as evident as Ohio. That's why we should be concerned. That's also why we need minimum wage reform.

I agree with everything you said except one little thing. STNAs don't make 11 dollars an hour, unless they have been at the same place for a decade. We earn from just a hair over minimum wage up to 9 bucks and change an hour.

I WISH I made 11 bucks an hour :/

[SWOH]

^Wow. That's horrible. STNA's are critical to people's health.

I made more as a foodservice manager at my college. With no formal training. Something's got to give.

[hensleya1]

This reminds me of the episode of 30 Days where Morgan Spurlock (of Super Size Me fame) spent 30 days with his girlfriend in Columbus, Ohio, living purely on minimum wage. By the end of the month, they were working three jobs between them, had a red-ant infested apartment in the ghetto, no car, pinched pennies, and were a thousand dollars in debt due to hospital bills. The shocker was that they were white, they were educated, they had no problem communicating with people, and remained fairly healthy the whole time (no chronic conditions).

So what does someone with kids, or someone with health issues, or someone who faces discrimination, do?

[SWOH]

^Exactly. You couldn't have said it any better.

Honestly, what happens is something gives. I know from personal experience now, that's a lot of the reason why I'm very vocal about the minimum wage issue. I've lived it.

Just recently, I had to quit my job because I ended up in the hospital. I worked about 20 hours a week. Then it all went south. I got a bad illness that hit quick, and paired with the exhaustion and dehydration I already had from my job, I ended up in the ER. Had to be admitted to the hospital and stay overnight. That hospital bill was for more than I made in a semester. I loved my job, I had a lot of fun, but I just couldn't do it anymore with full-time engineering school. I literally was worked to death.

I tried working a shift about two or three days after I was in the ER. It was murder. 2 hours in working the easiest station I could, I was near passing out and ready to snap. Total 180 from what I could normally do. And if I would have worked another shift or two like that, I would have had to quit or be fired.

What happens is people get in these situations working these kinds of jobs, and they can't take off work. The second they are out of the ER, they have to get right back to work. Employers don't care. They never give employees any time to recover. Then the employees get fired for bad performance, even if it was just because they needed more time recovering, and good luck getting a job after that. So they turn to easier routes, like welfare or criminal activity or whatever they can find. It's truly horrible. And employers can 100% demand this type of performance because there is a large labor surplus, and employees are getting less and less say.

Unions don't solve these kinds of problems. They did eons ago, but now they don't stand for much. Public policy is about all that can solve it. At least if people make enough so they aren't living in blatant poverty, they can save some money so when disaster strikes they can quit their job, take a week or two to recover, and then get another one. That's why I'm always advocating minimum wage reform. People need enough to live. And currently, minimum wage can't guarantee anything except permanent poverty.

[SWOH]

An easy video to watch to get a better idea of the income inequality issue
(or at the very least, the "why are the rich getting richer when more and more people can't even afford to live?" issue).

Are the Rich Getting Too Much of the Economic Pie? - The Atlantic

Also, this will be an interesting story to follow:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/21/living...pStoryGallLink

[Natural510]

Also, if you do try to "lift yourself up by your bootstraps", you go five-figures in debt, at minimum, for both school and personal debt while working/struggling to get a degree or other specialized training...with politicians looking to increase or at least maintain the current interest rates on student loans. That guarantees a nation who are either in debt for years, whether or not they have the means to pay it off (not for lack of willingness to do so), or are living off the system one way or another because that's the only way to not be a debt servant. Either way, if you're not born into money, you're screwed.
But of course, the current form of unregulated capitalism we live under is supposed to be keeping us "free".

[Dayton Sux]

That article. Havn't we read all this before? The same tale can be told in any number of rust belt towns. Lima just is it all in microcosm.

[IDtheftV]

Originally Posted by Natural510

But of course, the current form of unregulated capitalism we live under is supposed to be keeping us "free".

I'd call it poorly regulated capitalism.

It's unregulated where more money greases the politics and over regulated in other areas.

Other stuff is called "investment" when it should be called "crony capitalism" and stuff like that.