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Location: livin' the good life on America's favorite island
2,221 posts, read 4,394,149 times
Reputation: 1391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81
I can only agree that he's not the worst candidate, but I wouldn't go much further than that. He's perhaps the best the GOP is offering, but that's saying so little as to be meaningless.
Your such a joke, GOP has a great field of candidates. Look what DEM field looks like...Lying Hillary and that Bernie clown. Hey, your Mexican, what does it matter to you?
Neither link has to do with immigration at all, let alone supporting the narrative that immigration is directly detrimental to wages. Regardless, there are plenty of ways to address this without being xenophobic and paranoid, which is essentially what most of the anti-immigrant arguments boil down to. Do you prefer to be Japan, with it's negative natural growth rate and near non-existent immigration? They're heading toward demographic collapse, and that is most certainly not economically positive. I also find it wholly ironic that a country started by, built by and succeeded largely from immigrants has now decided that immigrants are pretty terrible and should be done away with. Perhaps the saying on the Statue of Liberty should be changed to "Get the f*ck off my lawn".
Didn't you ever take economics 101? I'm sorry that I assumed you would understand the linkage between immigration policy and the following findings:
<<The left-leaning group reports income for the lowest paid workers, defined as the lowest-paid fifth of all workers, has actually fallen 5.7% since 2009. The types of jobs seeing the greatest drops in income were for cooks and food prep workers, personal care and home health aides, and janitors and cleaners.>>
If you increase the supply of something greatly, unless you have a commensurate increase in demand, the cost of the good will fall in price. It is undeniable that if the wages of unskilled workers are falling that the supply exceeds the demand. Yet you and other pro-immigration proponents advocate for unchecked immigration, exacerbating an already bad situation.
Your refusal to see any connection between immigration and lower wages is no different IMO than the attitude of the deniers of man-made climate change. You can't admit the obvious reality.
I live in an area where many services, from landscaping, to concrete work, even tree removal, are provided "off-the-books" by illegal immigrants. Legitimate businesses are under immense pressure as a result, especially as these workers and their employers don't pay incomes taxes, workmen's compensation, and often collect public benefits and free health services. It's shocking the number of "legitimate" providers of such services that are employing strategies, probably illegal, such as "independent contractors" in order to remain competitive. Additionally, they are willing to accept cash payment for lower prices.
As for xenophobia, you have no concern about individuals who believe that women are subservient to men, who practice the wearing of the hijab, who believe in polygamy, and perhaps are committed proselytizers? I'm amazed about the naivete of individuals who believe that all persons just naturally gravitate to American values.
You live in some dreamworld unrecognizable to me.
We should be reducing our population, not just in the U.S. but globally. Do you honestly believe the Japanese would be happier if they allowed for unchecked immigration of Chinese, Syrians, etc.?
Long gone are the days when the U.S. had any need for vast numbers of unskilled workers. We can't even afford to educate, train and employ our existing workers, yet you and others like you seemingly support an open-door policy.
In the U.S., the most productive among our child-bearing population are heavily taxed and burdened by work and educational commitments, reducing their propensity to procreate. Meanwhile, those who are unable to support their offspring are heavily subsidized. See Table 2 here.
Your such a joke, GOP has a great field of candidates. Look what DEM field looks like...Lying Hillary and that Bernie clown. Hey, your Mexican, what does it matter to you?
You're.
Where are the great GOP candidates? I don't love the Dem candidates, but they won't push agendas from the Dark Ages.
WRnative;41087378]Didn't you ever take economics 101? I'm sorry that I
assumed you would understand the linkage between immigration policy and the
following findings:
<<The left-leaning group reports income for the lowest paid workers,
defined as the lowest-paid fifth of all workers, has actually fallen 5.7% since
2009. The types of jobs seeing the greatest drops in income were for cooks and
food prep workers, personal care and home health aides, and janitors and
cleaners.>>
Since 2009 could easily support the idea that wages have fallen due to the economic recession that occurred during that time. Immigrants have been in the country a hell of a lot longer than that, so why just since 2009?
Quote:
If you increase the supply of something greatly, unless you have a commensurate
increase in demand, the cost of the good will fall in price. It is undeniable
that if the wages of unskilled workers are falling that the supply exceeds the
demand. Yet you and other pro-immigration proponents advocate for unchecked
immigration, exacerbating an already bad situation.
Okay, so if you believe this, again there's a pretty simple fix- punish employers that may hire illegals, and punish them severely. Legal immigrants would be subject to the same laws as natives. At the same time, make the path to citizenship reasonable and fair for all (and please don't say that it is). Being xenophobic, fear mongering and borderline racist is not going to solve anything.
Quote:
Your refusal to see any connection between immigration and lower wages is no
different IMO than the attitude of the deniers of man-made climate change. You
can't admit the obvious reality
.
To me, this would be an employer issue, not an immigration issue. It's ridiculous and stupid to be against immigration after all the good that it's done for the US just because there may be fixable issues.
Quote:
I live in an area where many services, from landscaping, to concrete work, even
tree removal, are provided "off-the-books" by illegal immigrants. Legitimate
businesses are under immense pressure as a result, especially as these workers
and their employers don't pay incomes taxes, workmen's compensation, and often
collect public benefits and free health services. It's shocking the number of
"legitimate" providers of such services that are employing strategies, probably
illegal, such as "independent contractors" in order to remain competitive.
Additionally, they are willing to accept cash payment for lower prices.
So punish the employers, which are actually the real problem. Illegals just want to work and support themselves and their families, of which I can't really fault, and employers are taking advantage of them by providing below minimum wage pay without benefits, which is often the case. And if they were legal, they'd be bound by minimum wage laws and paying into the system. This isn't rocket science.
Quote:
As for xenophobia, you have no concern about individuals who believe that
women are subservient to men, who practice the wearing of the hijab, who believe
in polygamy, and perhaps are committed proselytizers? I'm amazed about the
naivete of individuals who believe that all persons just naturally gravitate to
American values.
I generally have a big problem with religion in general, because it's anti-science, anti-rational thought, anti-social progress, etc. So no, I don't like subservient women having to cover themselves, etc. That said, all religion, including America's dominant Christianity, is barely a step above this socially. If we're going to be all angry at Muslims for being progressively backwards, there's a whole lot of change that needs to happen in American society as well. I mean, have you seen the GOP candidates? None of them are Muslim. All that said, if they want to be in the US, stay out of trouble and lead their lives, I don't really see the issue.
Quote:
You live in some dreamworld unrecognizable to me.
I'm sure of that.
Quote:
We should be reducing our population, not just in the U.S. but globally. Do
you honestly believe the Japanese would be happier if they allowed for unchecked
immigration of Chinese, Syrians, etc.?
Immigration isn't about you being happy.
Quote:
Long gone are the days when the U.S. had any need for vast numbers of unskilled
workers. We can't even afford to educate, train and employ our existing
workers, yet you and others like you seemingly support an open-door policy.
The thing is, the US CAN afford it. Just like it can afford to fix its infrastructure. It just has chosen not to.
Quote:
In the U.S., the most productive among our child-bearing population are
heavily taxed and burdened by work and educational commitments, reducing their
propensity to procreate. Meanwhile, those who are unable to support their
offspring are heavily subsidized. See Table 2 here.
Who would be the most productive people in your mind? Who would be the least? Be specific.
Quote:
This is a prescription for societal disaster.
You know even without any immigration at all, this would still be an issue for natives, right?
Quote:
You're lack of understanding about the impact of immigration, and
consequently empathy for native-born Americans IMO is palpable.
I know plenty of immigration, thanks, because I've dealt with the system directly. I also have plenty of empathy for natives being one of them. I just don't hold your view that these problems don't have logical and fair solutions, or that the only way to deal with them is to have a panic attack and build unrealistic walls.
Didn't you ever take economics 101? I'm sorry that I assumed you would understand the linkage between immigration policy and the following findings:
<<The left-leaning group reports income for the lowest paid workers, defined as the lowest-paid fifth of all workers, has actually fallen 5.7% since 2009. The types of jobs seeing the greatest drops in income were for cooks and food prep workers, personal care and home health aides, and janitors and cleaners.>>
If you increase the supply of something greatly, unless you have a commensurate increase in demand, the cost of the good will fall in price. It is undeniable that if the wages of unskilled workers are falling that the supply exceeds the demand. Yet you and other pro-immigration proponents advocate for unchecked immigration, exacerbating an already bad situation.
Your refusal to see any connection between immigration and lower wages is no different IMO than the attitude of the deniers of man-made climate change. You can't admit the obvious reality.
I live in an area where many services, from landscaping, to concrete work, even tree removal, are provided "off-the-books" by illegal immigrants. Legitimate businesses are under immense pressure as a result, especially as these workers and their employers don't pay incomes taxes, workmen's compensation, and often collect public benefits and free health services. It's shocking the number of "legitimate" providers of such services that are employing strategies, probably illegal, such as "independent contractors" in order to remain competitive. Additionally, they are willing to accept cash payment for lower prices.
As for xenophobia, you have no concern about individuals who believe that women are subservient to men, who practice the wearing of the hijab, who believe in polygamy, and perhaps are committed proselytizers? I'm amazed about the naivete of individuals who believe that all persons just naturally gravitate to American values.
You live in some dreamworld unrecognizable to me.
We should be reducing our population, not just in the U.S. but globally. Do you honestly believe the Japanese would be happier if they allowed for unchecked immigration of Chinese, Syrians, etc.?
Long gone are the days when the U.S. had any need for vast numbers of unskilled workers. We can't even afford to educate, train and employ our existing workers, yet you and others like you seemingly support an open-door policy.
In the U.S., the most productive among our child-bearing population are heavily taxed and burdened by work and educational commitments, reducing their propensity to procreate. Meanwhile, those who are unable to support their offspring are heavily subsidized. See Table 2 here.
Neither link has to do with immigration at all, let alone supporting the narrative that immigration is directly detrimental to wages. Regardless, there are plenty of ways to address this without being xenophobic and paranoid, which is essentially what most of the anti-immigrant arguments boil down to. Do you prefer to be Japan, with it's negative natural growth rate and near non-existent immigration? They're heading toward demographic collapse, and that is most certainly not economically positive. I also find it wholly ironic that a country started by, built by and succeeded largely from immigrants has now decided that immigrants are pretty terrible and should be done away with. Perhaps the saying on the Statue of Liberty should be changed to "Get the f*ck off my lawn".
Again you result to your name calling and labeling...
No one said anything about immigrants being terrible or that they should be done away with.. That's you trying to change the posters narrative to fit your argument.
Its the ILLEGAL immigrants the overwhelming majority of American citizens have a problem with.
Again you result to your name calling and labeling...
No one said anything about immigrants being terrible or that they should be done away with.. That's you trying to change the posters narrative to fit your argument.
Its the ILLEGAL immigrants the overwhelming majority of American citizens have a problem with.
There are plenty of people saying this. Open your eyes. Anyway, it was an accurate description for how most people react on this issue.
I've discovered recently, what with the recent race riots, the police brutality, church shootings, Confederate flag debate and currently Donald Trump and his hordes of supporters who probably stock up at every White Sale at K-Mart, that a whole lot of Americans are incredibly racist and bigoted. The country really hasn't moved past that issue even remotely. So it wouldn't surprise me in the least if legal status wasn't even a consideration when discussing immigrants or immigration policy. Look at human history. What suggests to you that most people are anything but selfish and terrible just because they can be? How many flag-waving, church-going Americans saw the recent photo of that dead Syrian boy on the beach and thought "good riddance"? I bet more than you feel comfortable admitting. Immigrants are human. Illegals are human. The issues with immigration can be addressed in rational ways without the unnecessary BS about trying to make them any less, period. The fact that you have immigrant family and still support that kind of treatment against them just goes back to the main point of this: people suck.
Ohio's job performance under Kasich has lagged nationally. Most disturbing to me, by leveraging the Ohio Turnpike, he has put an anchor around the northern Ohio manufacturing economy for decades into the future.
Ocean vertebrate population down 50 percent since 1970
How does anybody support Kasich or any of the Republican presidential candidates who are so dismissive of pressing environmental concerns? The Democrats are do-nothings, but the Republicans even deny there is a problem, and give the Democrats political cover for their inaction.
<<
A new report on the health of the ocean finds that the marine vertebrate population has declined by 49 percent between 1970 and 2012.
WWF’s Living Blue Planet Report tracks 5,829 populations of 1,234 mammal, bird, reptile, and fish species through a marine living planet index. The evidence, analyzed by researchers at the Zoological Society of London, paints a troubling picture. In addition to the plummeting number of marine vertebrate species, populations of locally and commercially fished fish species have fallen by half, with some of the most important species experiencing even greater declines.
These findings coincide with the growing decline of marine habitats, where the deforestation rate of mangroves exceeds even the loss of forests by 3-5 times; coral reefs could be lost across the globe by 2050; and almost one-third of all seagrasses have been lost.
Global climate is one of the major drivers causing the ocean to change more rapidly than at any other point in millions of years. The oceans store huge quantities of energy and heat, but as the climate responds to increasing carbon emissions, the exchange intensifies. This may result in extreme weather events, changing ocean currents, rising sea temperatures, and increasing acidity levels—all of which aggravate the negative impacts of overfishing and other major threats such as habitat degradation and pollution.>>
We've seen how Kasich ignored the Lake Erie toxic algal problem until Toledo's water supply was interrupted for several days. Then he championed ineffective, ag industry-friendly legislation that has resulted this summer in one of the worst algal blooms yet.
Global warming is a scam and an enormous waste of my time... that's why I'm not listening.
Back on topic, though: no, I would not support a John Kasich presidency. His expansion of Medicaid under Obamacare, which presented an unlimited future liability to the state, irks me. Also his support of Common Core, amnesty for illegal immigrants, and his surrender on the gay marriage issue by saying he would not nominate judges to reverse last summer's Supreme Court decision... has cost him my support.
I'll support someone who instead stands up for what used to make America great: local control of schools, a hands-off approach by government to the ordinary American's life, and most significantly, someone who will bring our jobs back. Too long have we let snails and shrews get in the way of bettering the lives of ordinary Americans.
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