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Wow. Khan, I'm not quite following your angle on this, and I don't know anything about white Appalachian generations here (eastern euro myself) - but I can tell you "don'tholdback" is largely wrong. Not entirely. But, for instance, Warren is 30% non-white - so it's not accurate to say it is "mostly white dope addicts."
Campbell does indeed have a lengthy history - as described above. That's why it's called "history." Modern Campbell, while not exactly The Place to Be, is nothing at all like it used to be.
don'tholdback has some passionate opinions about the area - but pretty clearly biased towards the bad. Lots of good things here too.
Wow. Khan, I'm not quite following your angle on this, and I don't know anything about white Appalachian generations here (eastern euro myself) - but I can tell you "don'tholdback" is largely wrong. Not entirely. But, for instance, Warren is 30% non-white - so it's not accurate to say it is "mostly white dope addicts."
Campbell does indeed have a lengthy history - as described above. That's why it's called "history." Modern Campbell, while not exactly The Place to Be, is nothing at all like it used to be.
don'tholdback has some passionate opinions about the area - but pretty clearly biased towards the bad. Lots of good things here too.
My angle is simply that I find the topic of the Rust Belt in general to be fascinating and I'm interested in learning about the supposed phenomenon of white " ghettos " in general ...
As an American of Eastern European descent would you agree with the claim , made by previous posters in this thread , that white people of Eastern European descent in Ohio have a greater tendency to be upwardly mobile than their Appalachian descended counterparts ? If so then what do you think are the reasons behind it ?
Does everybody feel better now? You've been able to disparage a large segment of your fellow citizens with misinformation, half-truths and outright lies and tar them as deplorable, despicable, uneducated sociopaths.
Does everybody feel better now? You've been able to disparage a large segment of your fellow citizens with misinformation, half-truths and outright lies and tar them as deplorable, despicable, uneducated sociopaths.
I do hope you're not referring to me , since I haven't disparaged anyone and I'm not even an American citizen to boot .
Khan - knowing now that you're a non-Citizen (and I may be making some assumptions - maybe you've lived here 40 years and just aren't technically a citizen, or maybe you've never lived here...) but this explains your question to me a little better.
Ordinarily - many folks would find the question itself offensive. I'll try to explain - North Beach, you can fix me if I'm wrong - but...
America is unique in terms of cultural and generational identity. Considering a few other nations - and these are generalities, for sure, but so is your question: Most of Germany is filled with Germans. Most of Italy is filled with Italians. And most of Greece is filled with Greeks. And so on. Each place (and most of the others) is full of citizens with a strong national history, a lengthy "pedigree" of generations of the same nationality, and a deep sense of culture and customs that go with it.
America is mostly not that. We have Germans here, Greeks, Italians...and everything else. In that past 200 years, they have co-mingled, reproduced, immigrated, imported customs, exported customs, smashed their languages into English (mostly), and generally learned to love and live with one another. As a result...
We tend not to compartmentalize our cultures. Until you posed your question - I had never once considered any of neighbors of "white Appalachian" or anything else. Sure, sometimes, there is still a first- or 2nd-generation family member there - "Oh, Joe, he's the old Italian guy in 4B" - but beyond that "identifier" I don't consider his culture "Italian" - I consider it American, just like mine.
Having said all that - YES - there are certainly still pockets of "culture" around the USA, and Ohio. Amish comes to mind.
To generalize "white ghettos" in Ohio as somehow related to Appalachian culture is not just inappropriate - but certainly incorrect. I know plenty of the folks dontholdback would call "white trash" - and none of them would trace their roots to Appalachia. Most of them can't trace their roots, period.
If your main angle here is "white ghetto" research - then that seems like a legitimate and interesting topic - but your attempt to tie it to one culture or origin is just not correct.
The Appalachians I do actually know - whose ancestors where - literally - from Appalachia - are hard-working resourceful folks, who generally prefer a simpler life, are deeply spiritual, and basically happy. They are not unintelligent.
Khan - knowing now that you're a non-Citizen (and I may be making some assumptions - maybe you've lived here 40 years and just aren't technically a citizen, or maybe you've never lived here...) but this explains your question to me a little better.
Ordinarily - many folks would find the question itself offensive. I'll try to explain - North Beach, you can fix me if I'm wrong - but...
America is unique in terms of cultural and generational identity. Considering a few other nations - and these are generalities, for sure, but so is your question: Most of Germany is filled with Germans. Most of Italy is filled with Italians. And most of Greece is filled with Greeks. And so on. Each place (and most of the others) is full of citizens with a strong national history, a lengthy "pedigree" of generations of the same nationality, and a deep sense of culture and customs that go with it.
America is mostly not that. We have Germans here, Greeks, Italians...and everything else. In that past 200 years, they have co-mingled, reproduced, immigrated, imported customs, exported customs, smashed their languages into English (mostly), and generally learned to love and live with one another. As a result...
We tend not to compartmentalize our cultures. Until you posed your question - I had never once considered any of neighbors of "white Appalachian" or anything else. Sure, sometimes, there is still a first- or 2nd-generation family member there - "Oh, Joe, he's the old Italian guy in 4B" - but beyond that "identifier" I don't consider his culture "Italian" - I consider it American, just like mine.
Having said all that - YES - there are certainly still pockets of "culture" around the USA, and Ohio. Amish comes to mind.
To generalize "white ghettos" in Ohio as somehow related to Appalachian culture is not just inappropriate - but certainly incorrect. I know plenty of the folks dontholdback would call "white trash" - and none of them would trace their roots to Appalachia. Most of them can't trace their roots, period.
If your main angle here is "white ghetto" research - then that seems like a legitimate and interesting topic - but your attempt to tie it to one culture or origin is just not correct.
The Appalachians I do actually know - whose ancestors where - literally - from Appalachia - are hard-working resourceful folks, who generally prefer a simpler life, are deeply spiritual, and basically happy. They are not unintelligent.
Yeah I've never even visited the USA , so I'm definitely not knowledgeable of its internal cultural dynamics ...
I hope I haven't offended you by the way , since it certainly wasn't my intent ...
And I appreciate your insight as well , so thanks again .
I don't care for the term "white trash" and how it's being used as a synonym for poor white folks, but I have to disagree with roods in that Appalachian culture is definitely noticeable from other white cultures in the area. Mainly because folks from that region have a distinct anti-authoritarian perspective in their culture which has made it more difficult for them to integrate when moving here to work in the factories, etc compared to immigrants and existing residents. There's a bigger focus on family and larger distrust of outsiders which has kept them more insular compared to other groups, which is why they remain distinct to this day where German, Irish, Italian etc Americans do not.
I don't care for the term "white trash" and how it's being used as a synonym for poor white folks, but I have to disagree with roods in that Appalachian culture is definitely noticeable from other white cultures in the area. Mainly because folks from that region have a distinct anti-authoritarian perspective in their culture which has made it more difficult for them to integrate when moving here to work in the factories, etc compared to immigrants and existing residents. There's a bigger focus on family and larger distrust of outsiders which has kept them more insular compared to other groups, which is why they remain distinct to this day where German, Irish, Italian etc Americans do not.
Khan - knowing now that you're a non-Citizen (and I may be making some assumptions - maybe you've lived here 40 years and just aren't technically a citizen, or maybe you've never lived here...) but this explains your question to me a little better.
Ordinarily - many folks would find the question itself offensive. I'll try to explain - North Beach, you can fix me if I'm wrong - but...
America is unique in terms of cultural and generational identity. Considering a few other nations - and these are generalities, for sure, but so is your question: Most of Germany is filled with Germans. Most of Italy is filled with Italians. And most of Greece is filled with Greeks. And so on. Each place (and most of the others) is full of citizens with a strong national history, a lengthy "pedigree" of generations of the same nationality, and a deep sense of culture and customs that go with it.
America is mostly not that. We have Germans here, Greeks, Italians...and everything else. In that past 200 years, they have co-mingled, reproduced, immigrated, imported customs, exported customs, smashed their languages into English (mostly), and generally learned to love and live with one another. As a result...
We tend not to compartmentalize our cultures. Until you posed your question - I had never once considered any of neighbors of "white Appalachian" or anything else. Sure, sometimes, there is still a first- or 2nd-generation family member there - "Oh, Joe, he's the old Italian guy in 4B" - but beyond that "identifier" I don't consider his culture "Italian" - I consider it American, just like mine.
Having said all that - YES - there are certainly still pockets of "culture" around the USA, and Ohio. Amish comes to mind.
To generalize "white ghettos" in Ohio as somehow related to Appalachian culture is not just inappropriate - but certainly incorrect. I know plenty of the folks dontholdback would call "white trash" - and none of them would trace their roots to Appalachia. Most of them can't trace their roots, period.
If your main angle here is "white ghetto" research - then that seems like a legitimate and interesting topic - but your attempt to tie it to one culture or origin is just not correct.
The Appalachians I do actually know - whose ancestors where - literally - from Appalachia - are hard-working resourceful folks, who generally prefer a simpler life, are deeply spiritual, and basically happy. They are not unintelligent.
A couple things since Khan may not know who/what are the Amish and then an extender.
Khan, the Amish (and there are several varieties grouped under the name) are basically a religious sect based on 15th Century Anabaptists. They believe that God has ordained that they not participate in "worldly" things and to conduct themselves as they would have 500 years ago. As such they disdain most modern conveniences like electricity or automobiles-BUT there's a lot of slop in that since many communities allow electricity in their barns but not their houses. They can use electric tools if powered by a generator and not from the grid. Also, riding is cars is allowed but a member can't drive it. Those are just a couple examples.
This is general: Appalachia tended to be settled by the Scots-Irish and to a lesser extent Germans. Much of it due to the availability of land. Immigrants who came later (Eastern Europeans, Italians, SE Europeans) tended to settle in the industrial cities of the Northeast out to Pittsburgh and into Ohio.
I can tell you that growing up in "Appalachian" NW Pennsylvania in a rural area was totally different than growing up in Pittsburgh, even though it's technically an Appalachian city", from family structure, jobs, education, etc.
A couple things since Khan may not know who/what are the Amish and then an extender.
Khan, the Amish (and there are several varieties grouped under the name) are basically a religious sect based on 15th Century Anabaptists. They believe that God has ordained that they not participate in "worldly" things and to conduct themselves as they would have 500 years ago. As such they disdain most modern conveniences like electricity or automobiles-BUT there's a lot of slop in that since many communities allow electricity in their barns but not their houses. They can use electric tools if powered by a generator and not from the grid. Also, riding is cars is allowed but a member can't drive it. Those are just a couple examples.
This is general: Appalachia tended to be settled by the Scots-Irish and to a lesser extent Germans. Much of it due to the availability of land. Immigrants who came later (Eastern Europeans, Italians, SE Europeans) tended to settle in the industrial cities of the Northeast out to Pittsburgh and into Ohio.
I can tell you that growing up in "Appalachian" NW Pennsylvania in a rural area was totally different than growing up in Pittsburgh, even though it's technically an Appalachian city", from family structure, jobs, education, etc.
Yup I'm aware of the Amish , though I appreciate your response regardless ...
FWIW are you familiar with an author called ( I think ) Jim Webb who wrote a book about his thesis that essentially boils down to the claim that much of the general outlook of the present day white working class in Middle America has been shaped by the Scots Irish ?
If so then are you more inclined to agree or disagree with that statement ?
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