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havent you noticed during your life we are on a slippery slope of loosing our rights .? red light cameras, dui checkpoints,homeland security,airport checkpoints,etc.etc... the last thing i am concerned about is illegals rights. didnt know they had any.
I am a bit concerned that you consider these things "losing your rights". Red Light camera? It's not your right to speed.
Dui Checkpoint? It's not your right to drink and drive.
Airport security? Huh? Are you that mad that you can't bring a jug of shampoo on an airplane?
You can call it more of a police state, but I don't see anything you mentioned being an infringement on my rights as an American.
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also what happens to legal american citizens when we visit canada? we show "papers" or we dont get to visit.
As a frequent visitor to Mexico I honestly want to know: If I was in Mexico illegally and got caught... what would happen?
I couldn't find much. This from 1995:
In the aftermath of Mexican criticism of Operation Gatekeeper and Prop. 187, there have been several reports of harsh Mexican policies toward illegal immigrants in Mexico. Although there are no "official" data on apprehensions and expulsions, it is estimated that the number of mostly Central Americans removed from Mexico during the first 11 months of 1994 averages 5,000 to 6,000 per month (Dec. MN). There were reportedly 143,000 illegal aliens removed from Mexico in 1993, and 90,000 in 1990.
if we had 20 million less illegals in this country wouldnt that be an instant boost for the economy? millions of jobs suddenly available. school systems are less burdened. health care system less burdened. not to mention the decrease in fraud regarding social services. do the people against this law know us legal citizens pay for the illegals in one way or another? imo deporting 20 million illegals would have better results for america than spending trillions of our tax dollars on "bail-outs".
A major, and unreported, part of the problem is which organizations benefit and which are depleted due to the high number of illegal aliens.
At the federal level, they collect payroll taxes from employers, and the illegals pay is part of this reported expenditure by companies. As a result, the federal government gets at least the employer part of the Social Security and Medicare contributions. This is a net benefit at the federal level, since the illegal aliens don't qualify for either benefit.
At the state and local government level it is a depletion of funds. The local governments must take in all kids residing in their school district, regardless of their "legal" status. In fact, they can't even request social security numbers of students, only their home addresses at the start of the school year. Likewise, many of the hospitals are required to treat all individuals showing up in their emergency wards, and then are reimbursed the "shortfall" resulting from non-payment of many poor folks. These funds come from state and county governments.
The underreported story is that the federal government hasn't historically taken strong action due to the fact they have decent financial benefit. The relationship between the federal and state governments has historically been a bit of a strained affair, and this is just one of many issues contributing to the awkward federal/state relationships.
I am a bit concerned that you consider these things "losing your rights". Red Light camera? It's not your right to speed.
Dui Checkpoint? It's not your right to drink and drive.
Airport security? Huh? Are you that mad that you can't bring a jug of shampoo on an airplane?
You can call it more of a police state, but I don't see anything you mentioned being an infringement on my rights as an American.
As a frequent visitor to Mexico I honestly want to know: If I was in Mexico illegally and got caught... what would happen?
I couldn't find much. This from 1995:
In the aftermath of Mexican criticism of Operation Gatekeeper and Prop. 187, there have been several reports of harsh Mexican policies toward illegal immigrants in Mexico. Although there are no "official" data on apprehensions and expulsions, it is estimated that the number of mostly Central Americans removed from Mexico during the first 11 months of 1994 averages 5,000 to 6,000 per month (Dec. MN). There were reportedly 143,000 illegal aliens removed from Mexico in 1993, and 90,000 in 1990.
I believe the slippery slope he's referring to is that the DUI checkpoint is not just for those breaking the law but also for those who are driving lawfully. Again, we are not guilty til proven innocent and it is not my responsability to prove that I am sober as I drive home from work. If I am weaving then by all means pull me over. If you are okay with this are you also ok with house searches that are randomly done. The red light cameras are questionable because not only are they used for stoplight runners but for any other use and you also have the right to have your accuser at your trial...I guess they could bring the camera in...There is no way to prove that the camera was functioning properly and that the picture taken was you driving through a red light...it only shows that you went through an intersection. Computers malfunction all the time could this happen? If it is possible then they shouldn't be used. At least with a policeman present they can swear witness to the infraction (not full proof but I doubt they want to appear if it didn't happen.) These are an infrigment on civil rights as described in the Bill of Rights (small ones but that's how it always starts).
secretary of homeland security janet napolitano along with barack hussein obama call the law "mis-guided". i think that says it all. how can the american people take terror serious when the border has more holes than swiss cheese.? personally i would bet the house our leaders dont want "borders", it goes against the big picture of "one world government". but thats my opinion.
If you see or know of any place that has been hiring illegal immigrants, here the number to call.
The great part about this is, if they are working at any kind of business, I.C.E closes the whole place down "With you in it" until they get everything and everyone figured out. So if your favorite plant nursery hires them and you on the property when I.C.E shows up, your not going anywhere until THEY are done.
Something to remember. The term "undocumented worker" is somewhat accurate. One of the things that really enrages me is when people say, "They're taking American jobs!" They're taking jobs that Americans won't do. Americans won't scrub floors, and do dishes, and clean hotel rooms. Yet, Americans want cheap food, cheap hotel rooms, and other cheap products that can only be produced with cheap foriegn labor. Then we have the hypocricy to trash the same people who make our cheap lives possible and who only want to work and would do so legally if allowed. By and large they are good people caught in a bad system. How hard would it be to simply have a functional temporary worker system that would allow these people to come here, do the work they gladly will do, and then get the income taxes on their labor. Why must we be so screwed up in everything we do?
^Americans do do those jobs, i know a ton of them. Go to any hotel in Ne Ohio and in most cases you're going to find a white or black person doing those jobs.
I believe the slippery slope he's referring to is that the DUI checkpoint is not just for those breaking the law but also for those who are driving lawfully.
I don't want to sidetrack this thread, but I still disagree that DUI Checkpoints or red light cameras are an infringement on our rights as americans.
Have you ever actually been through a DUI Checkpoint? I've been trough two. It was so not what I expected. The lines move very quick, they don't breathalyze every person.
Here was my last experience:
Pull up to a short line of backed up traffic. Got to the front in about 5 minutes. Cop says to me:
"Hi there!"
"Hello"
"What are you guys doing tonight?"
"We went to the MMA fight at the bar around the corner."
"Yea? Have you been drinking?"
"No sir. I am the designated driver for these drunken fools" (Point to friends)
"OK, have a good night!"
10 minutes total. No big deal. And if it gets a few drunks off the road, I am fine with it.
Of course, my tolerance for these things may be higher then yours. I am blind in my right eye because a drunk driver crashed into my mother and I.
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If you are okay with this are you also ok with house searches that are randomly done.
Of course not. I don't think it's quite the same. He had no probable cause to test me for drinking. and he didn't.
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The red light cameras are questionable because not only are they used for stoplight runners but for any other use and you also have the right to have your accuser at your trial...I guess they could bring the camera in...There is no way to prove that the camera was functioning properly and that the picture taken was you driving through a red light...it only shows that you went through an intersection. Computers malfunction all the time could this happen? If it is possible then they shouldn't be used.
Of all the people I know and all the threads I have read about people getting these tickets there is one common theme (including the one I got in Columbus). The person talking or posting WAS guilty and knew it. And I don't buy the "how do they know it was you driving?" excuse. They don't. This is why you don't get points. But if it wasn't you, you know damn well who it was. I mean, don't you?
Your son? Make him pay. Your brother? Make him pay. Your wife... pay.
If you are NOT guilty, you fight it. People beat this all the time.
Now, of course, I am not PRO RED LIGHT CAMERAS at all. I don't mean to come across like that. But I don't consider it an infringement on my rights.
Driving is a privilege. Not a right.
No matter how fast the lines move, if I was late for work, to pick up my kids from school or whatever; why was I stopped at all. The house search is the same because if I didn't have anything illegal in the house I wouldn't be cited but it is still an overreach by law enforcment. Probable cause IS required under the law and any time that a law allows that right to be weakened it is an infringment on my rights. I have never driven drunk (I feel that that should be attempted manslaughter...no different than spinning in a circle and firing a gun randomly...so I am not soft on those that do) however, I am very protective of my rights. The "privilege" of driving is also one that I had to earn and infractions of such is illegal, therefore I have the right to not have my car searched and under the equal protection clause I can't be pulled over for the way I look.
Legal immigration is a wonderful thing. It has made our country the wonderful nation that it is. The idea that cheap, illegal labor can make some rich at the expense of their fellow Americans is just not right. We are a nation of laws. I don't get the people who think that all the other laws should be obeyed and that we should just look the other way when it comes to illegal aliens. How many of them would let me break into their homes, comandeer one of their bedrooms, mooch their food and other proerty and sit around all day, smoking dope? Why is that any different than letting illegals flood into this country and suck up all our resources that WE have to pay for??? And why in the world aren't Hispanic Americans and legal immigrants screaming bloody murder instead of marching in the streets? It's THEIR jobs these lawbreakers are getting. As well as lowering the wages of ALL workers.
Maybe the answer is temporary AGRICULTURAL visas that foreigners can get to come into this country and work in the fields. THAT'S a job most Americans won't do. The other jobs like construction, trucking, and many others WOULD be done byu Americans if they were paid a living wage.
Keep telling it like it is Crew Chief! What is happening these days, IMO is that all the borders are being torn down to merge the United States into one hemispherical block, do away with the Constitution and render us all into slavery. You can't tell me that there is not a globalist plot underway and a shadow government that actually controls things. We have seen the United States systematically de-industrialized, become a near slave debtor nation to our enemies and squander our men and materiel on foreign battlefields in unwinnable wars run by politicians. Are we going the same way as the 2nd century Romans? You bet!! Whereas we once were the "shining city on a hill", we are now being eclipsed by the East, are becoming a leisure society with a permanent welfare class and bogged down into near impotence with endless debate on liberal issues. As Nero proclaimed, "Give them bread and give them circuses" and all the while the Huns were swarming the borders looking to cash in, the Legions were involved in wars of conquest on the fringes of the Empire.
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