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To my post above, I'll address your specific areas:
- Economy -- Columbus is stable, but Cleveland has hit a tipping point. After years of dragging, Cleveland is booming. Over $6 BILLION in investment right now in Cleveland--by 2012, the city will be growing again.Right now about 7 new hotels underway or planned downtown. Plus new convention center and other projects (aquarium, casino, etc.).
Columbus is more than just stable. It has the lowest unemployment of the 3 and the fastest growing GDP. All 3 have billions in development going on right now, so Cleveland is hardly unique in this aspect, and given how far it has declined, it's going to take significantly more than that to get it back to where it was decades ago. I fully support Cleveland's comeback, but come on.
- Skyline -- Cleveland. Tallest buildings. And, of course, the lake.
Columbus has more buildings over 400ft than either Cincy or Cleveland, so no. You could say that Cleveland has the tallest *single* building, but your statement is false.
- Population growth/decline -- Columbus city had growth but also note that the city gained population by annexing its suburbs/Cleveland City had a decline; Cleveland metro was stable; however Downtown Cleveland actually grew and has one of the fastest growing Downtowns in the country.
Wrong. I have been over this many times. Annexation was not what caused growth the last decade in Columbus. The vast majority of the growth occurred in pre-existing boundaries that were around in 2000. Annexation as a way of growth has largely stopped or slowed down to the point where it's not a significant factor. And no, Cleveland's metro is not stable. It lost double-digits in population the last decade. How is that stable? And downtown Cleveland saw growth in its immediate central areas, but so did Columbus and even Cincy to some degree. This is a trend not unique to Cleveland and is part of a national trend.
- Parks -- Not sure, but Cleveland has quite a few beautiful parks on the lake which the other cities couldn't possible have.
Other cities couldn't possibly have beautiful parks?
I am not trying to downplay the progress or amenities of Cleveland. I think it's a great city and I want to see it continue to come back. But I get tired of the outright myths that get thrown around here in relation to it and Ohio's other two major cities, especially Columbus.
Public Transportation -- Cleveland
Airport -- Cleveland
Education -- Cincinnati (UC, XU, Miami, NKU, Mount St. Joe's, Thomas More)
Economy -- Columbus
Good neighborhoods -- Cincinnati then Cleveland
Affordability -- 3-way tie
Skyline -- Cincinnati then Cleveland
New Developments -- Cincinnati then Cleveland
Food -- Cleveland then Cincinnati
Cultural diversity -- Cleveland
Population growth/decline -- Columbus then Cincinnati
Parks -- Cincinnati
Professional sports teams -- Cleveland then Cincinnati
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Coming from a Kentucky perspective it's always interesting to hear people from other parts of Ohio act like Cincinnati is a "minor" city. In the eastern 2/3rds of Kentucky, the southern half of West Virginia, and even the border counties of East Tennessee and SW Virginia Cincinnati is by far the dominate "Big City". I doubt there is a family in any of those areas without relatives who moved to Cincy for jobs. At one time I had every aunt/ uncle on both sides living in Cincy (having moved from South Central or Eastern KY). Lexington is now absorbing a lot of "migrants" from Appalachia, but Cincy (esp NKY) remains a major destination as well.
I think Ohio people sometimes dislike Cincinnati because half of the growth and several major destinations are on the Kentucky side. If you compare only the Ohio side of Cincy vs Cleveland then CLE wins, but if you compare Cincy/ NKY vs CLE I think Cincy comes ahead. More population growth, more college graduates, a major theme park and aquarium (CLE has neither), and more vibrant urban neighborhoods near downtown (yes, that includes Covington and Newport!!).
For the record I actually like Cleveland better than the Ohio side of Cincinnati. It's cleaner and I think the people are friendlier, and certainly there is less overt racism. But this thread is about what each city offers in terms of amenities. But other than several nice museums, a top rated hospital, and a nice waterfront; what exactly does Cleveland have? Honestly, it feels only marginally larger than Louisville (and L'ville has urban dining/ shopping corridors that CLE can only dream of).
Coming from a Kentucky perspective it's always interesting to hear people from other parts of Ohio act like Cincinnati is a "minor" city. In the eastern 2/3rds of Kentucky, the southern half of West Virginia, and even the border counties of East Tennessee and SW Virginia Cincinnati is by far the dominate "Big City". I doubt there is a family in any of those areas without relatives who moved to Cincy for jobs. At one time I had every aunt/ uncle on both sides living in Cincy (having moved from South Central or Eastern KY). Lexington is now absorbing a lot of "migrants" from Appalachia, but Cincy (esp NKY) remains a major destination as well.
I think Ohio people sometimes dislike Cincinnati because half of the growth and several major destinations are on the Kentucky side. If you compare only the Ohio side of Cincy vs Cleveland then CLE wins, but if you compare Cincy/ NKY vs CLE I think Cincy comes ahead. More population growth, more college graduates, a major theme park and aquarium (CLE has neither), and more vibrant urban near downtown (yes, that includes Covington and Newport!!).
I like Cincinnati and don't consider it a "minor city." I think what this thread exemplifies is that Ohio is one of the most unique states in that there is no one city that dominates. There is no NYC to New York State, no Chicago to Illinois, etc. We have 3 significant cities that are so often competing for attention. At one time or another, they were all at the top.. Cincy in the 1800s, Cleveland in the 1900s, and I think Columbus is moving to the top now, though its rise seems less meteoric and more steady-paced. That said, no matter who is considered to be on top, the other two will most likely be close behind.
Coming from a Kentucky perspective it's always interesting to hear people from other parts of Ohio act like Cincinnati is a "minor" city. In the eastern 2/3rds of Kentucky, the southern half of West Virginia, and even the border counties of East Tennessee and SW Virginia Cincinnati is by far the dominate "Big City". I doubt there is a family in any of those areas without relatives who moved to Cincy for jobs. At one time I had every aunt/ uncle on both sides living in Cincy (having moved from South Central or Eastern KY). Lexington is now absorbing a lot of "migrants" from Appalachia, but Cincy (esp NKY) remains a major destination as well.
I think Ohio people sometimes dislike Cincinnati because half of the growth and several major destinations are on the Kentucky side. If you compare only the Ohio side of Cincy vs Cleveland then CLE wins, but if you compare Cincy/ NKY vs CLE I think Cincy comes ahead. More population growth, more college graduates, a major theme park and aquarium (CLE has neither), and more vibrant urban neighborhoods near downtown (yes, that includes Covington and Newport!!).
For the record I actually like Cleveland better than the Ohio side of Cincinnati. It's cleaner and I think the people are friendlier, and certainly there is less overt racism. But this thread is about what each city offers in terms of amenities. But other than several nice museums, a top rated hospital, and a nice waterfront; what exactly does Cleveland have? Honestly, it feels only marginally larger than Louisville (and L'ville has urban dining/ shopping corridors that CLE can only dream of).
Sorry we have no major theme park (?) but for most Northern Ohioans the "Best Amusement Park in the World" on a peninsula in Lake Erie and the several waterparks in the area does just fine for us. And for the record Cleveland is currently in the process of building a state of the art aquarium in its downtown. We also have:
-One of the largest Metroparks systems.
-A National Park half an hour from downtown.
-Light and Heavy Rail transit.
-One of the best dining scenes in the Midwest.
-A lot of people actually don't know this but we do have Fashion Week Cleveland, third largest after NY and LA.
-We also have plenty of vibrant neighborhoods near Downtown: Ohio City, Tremont, Gordon Square, Edgewater, Detroit-Shoreway, Lakewood I might be missing a few and that's just the west side.
-Playhouse Square Center
And also I don't know any Cleveland people that consider Cincinnati a minor city. We view Cincinnati just as much a major city as any other.
I don't know much about the cities overall, but as far as downtowns go, I like Cleveland and then Cincinnati. Cleveland has rail transit, a fairly nice mall, very cool and old buildings, many good restaurants, the lake, and a lot to do. Cincinnati seems slightly less vibrant, but has the river and a nice skyline. Columbus has the least attractive downtown to me. It has the least attractive skyline of the three and has the least amount retail. Also, there are not many stores or restaurants that stay open past 5 or 6. Overall, downtown Columbus is just boring.
The Cleveland metro has nowhere near 4 million, let alone 5. Even if you throw in Akron, it's far from those numbers. The BEA stats that were posted earlier are not metro population stats.
4.5 million is about all of NE Ohio. Cleveland is listed at 2.1 million, but should be between 2.9 million-3.4 million.
Cleveland actually should have the most population in the metro of the 3, the only reason it doesn't is because it has a very small land area. The Cleveland metro is not allowed to include 2 bordering counties, Summit and Portage. If you compare them by CSA Cleveland is larger by about 650k. Columbus is growing the fastest though, Cincinnati metro is growing as well but Cleveland Metro/CSA is not.
Coming from a Kentucky perspective it's always interesting to hear people from other parts of Ohio act like Cincinnati is a "minor" city. In the eastern 2/3rds of Kentucky, the southern half of West Virginia, and even the border counties of East Tennessee and SW Virginia Cincinnati is by far the dominate "Big City". I doubt there is a family in any of those areas without relatives who moved to Cincy for jobs. At one time I had every aunt/ uncle on both sides living in Cincy (having moved from South Central or Eastern KY). Lexington is now absorbing a lot of "migrants" from Appalachia, but Cincy (esp NKY) remains a major destination as well.
I think Ohio people sometimes dislike Cincinnati because half of the growth and several major destinations are on the Kentucky side. If you compare only the Ohio side of Cincy vs Cleveland then CLE wins, but if you compare Cincy/ NKY vs CLE I think Cincy comes ahead. More population growth, more college graduates, a major theme park and aquarium (CLE has neither), and more vibrant urban neighborhoods near downtown (yes, that includes Covington and Newport!!).
For the record I actually like Cleveland better than the Ohio side of Cincinnati. It's cleaner and I think the people are friendlier, and certainly there is less overt racism. But this thread is about what each city offers in terms of amenities. But other than several nice museums, a top rated hospital, and a nice waterfront; what exactly does Cleveland have? Honestly, it feels only marginally larger than Louisville (and L'ville has urban dining/ shopping corridors that CLE can only dream of).
Who said that Cincinnati was a "minor" city? and Cincinnati metro already includes counties in Kentucky and Indiana, and the airport is on the KY side. Who compares the Cincinnati area without the areas in KY as well? I don't know anyone who does. And the Cincinnati metro is only slightly larger than Clevelands in population because Cincinnati metro includes 3 times as many counties and over twice the land area. That same area for Cleveland would have a population of 3.4 million vs Cincinnatis 2.1 million.
Cleveland is currently building a major aquarium right downtown, and the #1 amusement park in the world (Cedar Point) is in a bordering county to the metro area. And only marginally larger than Louisville? lol. Cleveland once had nearly a million people just in the city limits, it's well larger and more dense than Louisville and Cincinnati for that matter, now and then. Cleveland has much more diversity than both as well, city and metro.
All 3 of Ohio's largest cities ( Cleveland, Columbus & Cincinnati ) are progressing ... however, Cleveland is by far the only one of the 3 to be experiencing a building boom that is seeing BILLIONS in new investments and reinvestments ...
Columbus extended part of what's known as the "Scioto Mile", a downtown network of lovely parks that nestle against the Scioto River ... adding an impressive new fountain, cafe and other improvements. Nearby in downtown, the old "City Centre" mall was demolished ... in it's place is a lovely new park known as "Columbus Commons"
Cincinnati has seen the recent completion of an iconic new skyscraper in it's city centre
Cleveland is seeing the most startling transformation tho ... A huge list of major projects that are under construction, or coming soon.
These include:
*Greater Cleveland Aquarium *Horseshoe Casino ( first phase ) - in former Higbee Dept. Store Building *Horseshoe Casino ( second phase ) - much larger edifice & brand new construction behind Tower City Centre *Medical Mart *Convention Center - brand new & adjoining new medical mart *Cleveland State University - new residential village *Flats East Tower & development *Schofield Building - New Kimpton Hotel *Tudor Arms Hotel - renovation & renaming *Crowne Plaza Hotel - complete restoration & change to a Westin Hotel *Innerbelt Bridge Project - largest ODOT construction project in Ohio history
There are countless other projects all over the city and the surrounding metro ... but too dizzying to list at this time.
For the record, I am a former Columbus resident ... there's much to be proud of in Ohio's capital city ... but, Cleveland blows Columbus & Cincinnati outta the water with it's ongoing renaissance
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