OKC light rail! (Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Alex: tax, living, costs)

[stiffnecked]

It's not gonna work in OKC. Most new developement will take place outside of downtown OKC. Direct your efforts to improving the bus system, adding sidewalks and getting the potholes filled.

[Synopsis]

Originally Posted by TU 'cane

Yea, let's not forget OKC is a mega metropolis that can support light rail. Oh yea there's bricktown. I'm so tired of hearing this. Light rail is not for OKC or Tulsa right now! We don't have the population! I admire the motivation but it won't work. Try 10 years. And if it does work before then, you can slap me.

It will never be ready if you keep waiting, waiting, waiting...

Light rail will stimulate the development of downtown and bring business, residents, and much much more to the core of the city. You have to think ahead, and not wait for change to come but initiate change.

[SweethomeSanAntonio]

Wow, thats neat that OKC is considering light rail despite only having 1.2 million people in the metro. San Antonio has about 2.1 million and the city is just looking into light rail again. light rail was turned down 8 years ago. OKC is a Progressive thinking city.

[BigOkie]

I just don't think it's feasible right now for either Tulsa or OKC until they can get some other core infrastructure issues done right now. Both cities, especially OKC, are built around automobiles unfortunately. More so with OKC since it's more spread out. Until some infill takes place in both cities, I don't see light rail as a viable alternative for at least 10 years. It 'could' be an alternative sooner, and I hope it is, but I doubt it.

Hell, Tulsa has been hinted at getting funds from this pool to repair/replace the 53 bridges it has on the IDL (Inner Dispersal Loop). I drive this thing fairly regularly, and it needs it. The I-244 bridge over the Arkansas is in worse shape than the bridge that collapsed in Minneapolis last year, and it's a two-stage bridge (each direction has a separate bridge section).

[Synopsis]

The state should push for passenger rail between OkC and Tulsa. Then Tulsa would have access to the Amtrak that runs from OkC to Fort Worth.

[jetgraphics]

Originally Posted by redbird4848

I would like something close to monorail (yes as in Disneyland) or the one in vegas. Or like the that used to be at the State Fair.

Monorails are great for single dedicated routes. But their track and switching requirements are not as flexible as old fashioned dual rail.

Tram - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Consistent market research and experience over the last 50 years in Europe and North America shows that car commuters are willing to transfer some trips to rail-based public transport but not to buses. Typically light rail systems attract between 30 and 40% of their patronage from former car trips. Rapid transit bus systems attract less than 5% of trips from cars, less than the variability of traffic."

In light of the fact that America imports 70% of its petroleum, and no viable alternative is apparent, we can't afford to keep it up, nor can we endure its protracted loss. Our only choice is an oil free transportation network. We'll have to plan to "go back to the future" and rebuild our lost urban electric rail mass transit.

The wisest plan would be to scrap rebuilding infrastructure that supports the petroleum based transportation systems, and divert resources into electrifying mainline railroads and rebuilding streetcar systems as well as light rail.

(I am making the distinction that a streetcar is a single car, low speed, heavy passenger load vehicle running on the street. In contrast, the light rail is a multicar, moderate speed, light passenger load vehicle on segregated rights of way. Though they may overlap in functionality, they do have different objectives.)

Interesting history of OKC rail:
John's Model Railroading Page

"Most people would assume that we became a suburban community in the 1940s and 1950s, but we became a suburban city in 1902. Streetcars allowed people to move out to relatively cheap land to build new homes. Before then, we were primarily a walking city."

Part II , Oklahoma City during the 1910's: It was the best of times, | Journal Record, The (Oklahoma City) | Find Articles at BNET

On April 1, 1910, the Oklahoma Railway Co. acquired the streetcar lines of the Oklahoma City and Suburban Railway Co. That year the firm extended its Capitol Hill line to Moore.
On April 1, 1911, the Oklahoma Railway Co. took over the El Reno Interurban Railway Co. It opened through service from Oklahoma City to El Reno on Dec. 3. A round-trip ticket cost $1.65.

belleisleok.html

The Oklahoma Railway Company owned Belle Isle Park and Lake, located at the end of the Interurban line, and, after adding an electric plant, the company helped develop the area into an amusement park with picnicking, boating, rides, concessions, and a dance pavilion.

[happytown]

Originally Posted by jetgraphics

Monorails are great for single dedicated routes. But their track and switching requirements are not as flexible as old fashioned dual rail.

Tram - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Consistent market research and experience over the last 50 years in Europe and North America shows that car commuters are willing to transfer some trips to rail-based public transport but not to buses. Typically light rail systems attract between 30 and 40% of their patronage from former car trips. Rapid transit bus systems attract less than 5% of trips from cars, less than the variability of traffic."

In light of the fact that America imports 70% of its petroleum, and no viable alternative is apparent, we can't afford to keep it up, nor can we endure its protracted loss. Our only choice is an oil free transportation network. We'll have to plan to "go back to the future" and rebuild our lost urban electric rail mass transit.

The wisest plan would be to scrap rebuilding infrastructure that supports the petroleum based transportation systems, and divert resources into electrifying mainline railroads and rebuilding streetcar systems as well as light rail.

(I am making the distinction that a streetcar is a single car, low speed, heavy passenger load vehicle running on the street. In contrast, the light rail is a multicar, moderate speed, light passenger load vehicle on segregated rights of way. Though they may overlap in functionality, they do have different objectives.)

Interesting history of OKC rail:
John's Model Railroading Page

"Most people would assume that we became a suburban community in the 1940s and 1950s, but we became a suburban city in 1902. Streetcars allowed people to move out to relatively cheap land to build new homes. Before then, we were primarily a walking city."

Part II , Oklahoma City during the 1910's: It was the best of times, | Journal Record, The (Oklahoma City) | Find Articles at BNET

On April 1, 1910, the Oklahoma Railway Co. acquired the streetcar lines of the Oklahoma City and Suburban Railway Co. That year the firm extended its Capitol Hill line to Moore.
On April 1, 1911, the Oklahoma Railway Co. took over the El Reno Interurban Railway Co. It opened through service from Oklahoma City to El Reno on Dec. 3. A round-trip ticket cost $1.65.

belleisleok.html

The Oklahoma Railway Company owned Belle Isle Park and Lake, located at the end of the Interurban line, and, after adding an electric plant, the company helped develop the area into an amusement park with picnicking, boating, rides, concessions, and a dance pavilion.

Very interesting post. Thank you for the information. Its amazing that OKC had such a developed system. We def should go back to the past for the future.

[jetgraphics]

Originally Posted by happytown

Its amazing that OKC had such a developed system. We def should go back to the past for the future.

If "cheap and plentiful" petroleum wasn't available, I suspect that the U.S.A. would have the most track mileage - as it once did in the early 20th century.
Before cheap oil interests (and their political clout) killed off electrified urban rail, America had the MOST track miles in the world.

• Peak heavy rail mileage: 254,000 miles (less than 160,000 miles today)
• Streetcar track: 34,404 miles by 1907, in over 140 cities, with 60,000 cars in service.
• Interurban track: 18,000 miles by 1917

America once built 500 electric railroad systems in less than 20 years (1890 - 1910). Most cities and towns of 25,000 or more constructed and operated an electrical rail transportation system. The U.S.A. did this with a population of less than one-third of today's, approximately 3% of today's GNP, and relatively primitive technology.

Now, that America is no longer "Queen of Oil", it's time we stop fooling ourselves that "a breakthrough" will save us from our automobile addiction. The U.S.A. has more than 200 million automobiles, and very few alternatives to them. Based on the fact that we import 70% of our oil consumption, we must plan for the eventual day when that is no longer available or practical. That means we have to scale back automobile use by over 70% and provide alternative transportation for those people.

Before petroleum's rise, there were boats and railroads.
After petroleum's demise, there will be boats and electric railroads.
We Must Plan Accordingly.

[Howest2008]

I'm a great Rah...Rah.. Guy for the use of Urban Rail , be it Light Rail . Trolley , Monorail Systems. or the much faster High Speed (Heavy Rail). I've be honest with you I think that monorail would be perfect for Tulsa and Oklahoma City Especially Tulsa. Both cities should use Rail as A Intelligent Urban Renewal And Urban Planning TOOL.

[J1ndo]

For light rail to be effective, it needs a good bus system underlying it. A light rail system, because it is flashy, will make more people want to get out of their cars, but it won't get them to many destinations without a broad supporting bus network.

Most of OKC outside of Bricktown barely has sidewalks (I'm not kidding), much less a useful bus system. Putting in light rail now would be a waste, unless a bus system and pedestrian infrastructure are put in place first.

And this is coming from a huge fan of mass transit.