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Although, your point about the Big 8 is interesting because I can easily see how the plains part of Oklahoma north of I-40 could be considered "Midwest" in a Kansas sort of fashion.
However, Oklahoma really isn't much like any typical Midwestern State outside of the plains Midwestern states.
As usual Eddie G is on the money!
And perhaps our new friend Mr. Spurlock may not know his history pertaining to this region of the country, but Oklahoma Territory was heavily aligned with the Confederacy and received many of the Southern rejects during Reconstruction such as my kin, both Native and non-Native.
Also, the University of Oklahoma was a charter member of the Southwest Conference, which it only left because it built a yearly rivalry with Texas and found another conference (Missouri Valley/Big 8) to dominate not having to play the other Texas schools and Arkansas. This was good for the University of Oklahoma and gave it more of an opportunity to build a winning tradition.
But, most importantly, this is one of the threads on this forum which should die. It's been dying a slow death about 3-4 years now. This topic of Oklahoma's identity has been discussed ad nauseum on the General Forum and time and time again the polls/opinions have shown Oklahoma NOT to be associated with the Midwest. In other words, even if we don't agree with the Census' view of Oklahoma as part of the "West South Central," the evidence still points that most people tend to think of Oklahoma in the same vein as Texas, Arkansas, and to a much lesser extent Louisiana. Whatever Oklahoma is....The Indian Nations, the West, or SOUTHwest, or the South, or South-Central, or just OKLAHOMA it is not the Midwest. Go look at the discussions pertaining to the Midwest right now and see how often Oklahoma is mentioned. I think you'll see it's very little, if at all. Often when Oklahoma is mentioned in such discussions so is Arkansas and even Texas.
I do agree with Mr. Spurlock that Oklahoma is very Western in its heart and soul if he's meaning it in the true sense of the Ol' Southwest of ranching and cowboys such is found in Oklahoma, Texas, and points westward.
Hey Mods, do us a favor and put this thread to bed. Oklahoma is partly Southern Plains, a mixture of Southern/West = SOUTHwest culturally, the heart of the South-Central, and very little to none Midwest. Thanks in advance, Moderators!
Sincerely,
The Okies on the Oklahoma Forum
Last edited by Bass&Catfish2008; 04-12-2016 at 03:02 PM..
And perhaps our new friend Mr. Spurlock may not know his history pertaining to this region of the country, but Oklahoma Territory was heavily aligned with the Confederacy and received many of the Southern rejects during Reconstruction such as my kin, both Native and non-Native.
Also, the University of Oklahoma was a charter member of the Southwest Conference, which it only left because it built a yearly rivalry with Texas and found another conference (Missouri Valley/Big 8) to dominate not having to play the other Texas schools and Arkansas. This was good for the University of Oklahoma and gave it more of an opportunity to build a winning tradition.
But, most importantly, this is one of the threads on this forum which should die. It's been dying a slow death about 3-4 years now. This topic of Oklahoma's identity has been discussed ad nauseum on the General Forum and time and time again the polls/opinions have shown Oklahoma NOT to be associated with the Midwest. In other words, even if we don't agree with the Census' view of Oklahoma as part of the "West South Central," the evidence still points that most people tend to think of Oklahoma in the same vein as Texas, Arkansas, and to a much lesser extent Louisiana. Whatever Oklahoma is....The Indian Nations, the West, or SOUTHwest, or the South, or South-Central, or just OKLAHOMA it is not the Midwest. Go look at the discussions pertaining to the Midwest right now and see how often Oklahoma is mentioned. I think you'll see it's very little, if at all. Often when Oklahoma is mentioned in such discussions so is Arkansas and even Texas.
I do agree with Mr. Spurlock that Oklahoma is very Western in its heart and soul if he's meaning it in the true sense of the Ol' Southwest of ranching and cowboys such is found in Oklahoma, Texas, and points westward.
Hey Mods, do us a favor and put this thread to bed. Oklahoma is partly Southern Plains, a mixture of Southern/West = SOUTHwest culturally, the heart of the South-Central, and very little to none Midwest. Thanks in advance, Moderators!
Sincerely,
The Okies on the Oklahoma Forum
Good lord, OU left the Southwest Conference after just four years for what would become the Midwestern Big 8 in 1919.
None of Oklahoma’s cities of any size even existed during the civil war.
Google seems to think that Oklahoma is the Midwest:
Quote:
Oklahoma is a midwestern U.S. state whose diverse landscape includes the Great Plains, mountains, lakes and forests. Oklahoma City, the capital, is home to the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum, recognizing the state’s pioneer history, and the Bricktown entertainment district, popular for dining and nightlife. The Red Earth Native American cultural festival is a major draw each June.
Tulsans usually refer to the city as being in the Midwest, from the local TV stations to the newspaper they all always refer to Tulsa being in the Midwest. Local weather people always refer to Tulsa as Midwest.
Local bands like Midwest Kings seem to think they are from the Midwest. Local festivals are referred to as being in the Midwest. From the Midwest Harp Festival to the I AM Festival billed as the largest Yoga festival in the Midwest to the Global Sporting Show, billed as the largest hunting show in the Midwest.
I agree Oklahoma City is more torn, and probably mostly considers itself to be Southwestern like Dallas but Tulsa is solidly Midwestern. I’m not saying that no one in Oklahoma doesn’t think of themselves as Southern. I’m sure most people in Southeast Oklahoma do. But the idea that no one thinks of Oklahoma as being in the Midwest or really that very many at all think of Oklahoma as being Southern. Oklahoma is split between Southwestern and Midwestern with a little bit of Southern mixed in. We are in the middle.
As a native Oklahoman from the North-Central part of the state, I can tell you the communities of Bartlesville and Ponca City are definitely Midwestern in culture and thinking and to a lesser degree, dialect. That region was settled by Kansans and other "Midwesterners" during the Land runs. We grew up with much more in common with Kansans than with anyone from the Southeast.
Truly though, Oklahoma is a melting pot. In the West, it is more like the West and especially West Texas in politics and dialect. South of the city it is more like north Texas. In the Southeast, often called "little Dixie", it is more southern. My experience has been that more people from the city north to Kansas, think of themselves as Midwestern.
We are all in all Oklahomans with extremely varied roots. Culturally, the state is a mix of regional dialects and traditions from many places. If you're from the Little Dixie region, then those traditions are more Southern, if from the West, more Southwestern, the other 50% are more Midwestern, but all have been modified.
For me, I think of myself as Midwestern, being from the North part of the state and considering my ancestry. Mostly Oklahoma is Oklahoma.
I'm from Tulsa and I consider myself southern. Maybe that's because my parents and grandparents were from deeper parts of the south and my upbringing was steeped in southern tradition. Regardless, I still consider the eastern part of Oklahoma to be southern. Western, not so much. Its more southwest in climate and culture.
It is ironic. Today I went to a seminar in OKC. The speaker was from Virginia and he referred to Oklahoma as being in the "Midwest" multiple times.
At one point during a section on cultural differences in ethnic groups he commented that when he spoke "here" in the "Midwest" that "unlike the south" there were very few African Americans in his audience. He then pointed out that there were no African Americans in our audience.
It is ironic. Today I went to a seminar in OKC. The speaker was from Virginia and he referred to Oklahoma as being in the "Midwest" multiple times.
At one point during a section on cultural differences in ethnic groups he commented that when he spoke "here" in the "Midwest" that "unlike the south" there were very few African Americans in his audience. He then pointed out that there were no African Americans in our audience.
much the same could be said about any state in the west and you certainly wouldn't consider Arizona to be in the "midwest".
>>>>>
I agree Oklahoma City is more torn, and probably mostly considers itself to be Southwestern like Dallas but Tulsa is solidly Midwestern. I’m not saying that no one in Oklahoma doesn’t think of themselves as Southern. I’m sure most people in Southeast Oklahoma do. But the idea that no one thinks of Oklahoma as being in the Midwest or really that very many at all think of Oklahoma as being Southern. Oklahoma is split between Southwestern and Midwestern with a little bit of Southern mixed in. We are in the middle.
<<<<<
Response for Swakester & Other Fellar
Agreed with the bold.
Bravo for pointing to some personal examples I can just as easily do the same as evidenced below. Moreover, sorry, but pointing to fivethirtyeight.com is not really boosting the credibility of your assertions.
Here's some more legitimate scholarly studies that refute your position and have found a strong association and affinity between Oklahoma and what is typically understood as Southern cultural traits:
1. According to the Harvard dialect study, a decided majority of Oklahomans use either "y'all" or "you all" to refer to a group of more than one person (with the former a plurality) :
50. What word(s) do you use to address a group of two or more people?
a. you all (24.89%)
b. yous, youse (0.43%)
d. you guys (18.03%)
e. you 'uns (0.43%)
g. you (8.15%)
h. other (1.72%)
i. y'all (46.35%)
2.The Odum Institute: Southern Focus Polls
Oklahoma, along with Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia was included in The Southern Focus Poll which showed that a majority of Oklahomans (upwards of 60-70%) of Okies identify with the South and Southern culture. Probably the most extensive scholarly research done on which citizens of each state self-identify with the South/culture.
3. Some maps that point to Oklahoma's affiliation (or, if you prefer, influence by) the South:
Bummer, hard to argue with those little critters we know as facts by the educated elite. Even I (and you), the biggest Redneck around, have to acknowledge that academicians doing real research deserve a careful hearing. It appears that more times than not, they have found that Oklahoma generally is to be associated with other Southern states.
As for nobody in Tulsa affiliating with the South or Southern culture, that's a misnomer too. Google is your friend, my friend. Look at these articles/folks/businesses in Tulsa or the Tulsa area who are quite overt with a sense of Southern identity:
Finally, reading back through this very long protracted thread......zzzzzzzzzzzzz........what?.....Oh yeh, most folks perceived Oklahoma as a Southwestern/Southern state and sometimes even more just good ol' Western before the Midwest designation. Southwestern/Southern, I believe, is about the best and most accurate description.
As I posted earlier in the thread, I believe those claiming Oklahoma as an undeniable member of the the Midwest are actually using it more in the connotation of geographically central or the middle of the United States (which is NOT the historically understood meaning of the term "Midwest" as it applies to the United States).
The undeniable Midwest states are Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, the Dakotas, and Missouri. Again, in the same vein as fivethirtyeight.com, go over to the General Forum and see how many times Oklahoma is mentioned in the Midwest threads. It happens but it is quite infrequent. If you'll remember I challenged somebody from our forum to go to the General Forum and ask about what they think Oklahoma and what region it belongs in. Okie took me up on the challenge and the overwhelming results were that Oklahoma was not associated with the Midwest, something over 60% went for the South. And I think the Southwest and Midwest designations were right around the same with the Southwest with a slight advantage if my memory serves me correctly.
With the exception of a bit of Kansas and some more of Missouri, Oklahoma is not like the true Midwest states. Most Okies generally regionally associate with Texas first, Arkansas second, and then probably Kansas/Missouri. I'm guessing fourth would be a scramble for New Mexico and to a much lesser extent Louisiana.
I get that some (perhaps you?) wish to dissociate Oklahoma from its Southern connection/culture because of the negative connotation of being a Southern person, i.e. the bigotry, racism, and ignorance that is posited therein. I guess the idea is that Oklahoma's perception will be elevated by identifying with another region (such as the Midwest, for example) which may not have the negative perception by the rest of America. For those who wish to do so (maybe you?), or perhaps just designating Oklahoma to the "Other" status or just the plain ol' "We're Oklahoma and we can't be defined/pinned down by a title," I say employ those monikers because they are much more descriptive than the "Midwest" tag....again, if we're speaking in terms of the obvious understood meaning of that term with the core of Midwestern states such as Indiana, Ohio, Illinois, et al.
Cheers my South-Central, Brother!
Last edited by Bass&Catfish2008; 04-15-2016 at 11:26 PM..
much the same could be said about any state in the west and you certainly wouldn't consider Arizona to be in the "midwest".
Yeh, unless that Virginia dude is from about Richmond and below, he's blowing smoke. Oklahoma, on the whole, has more Southernness than Virginia because of the excessive transplantation that has occurred in Nova and now in southern VA.
Yeh, unless that Virginia dude is from about Richmond and below, he's blowing smoke. Oklahoma, on the whole, has more Southernness than Virginia because of the excessive transplantation that has occurred in Nova and now in southern VA.
He was from Charlottesville. Faculty at UVa
The point being, to a southerner, Oklahoma might seem "Midwestern". To a Midwesterner, Oklahoma would probably seem pretty southern.
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It's been dying a slow death about 3-4 years now. This topic of Oklahoma's identity has been discussed ad nauseum on the General Forum and time and time again the polls/opinions have shown Oklahoma NOT to be associated with the Midwest. In other words, even if we don't agree with the Census' view of Oklahoma as part of the "West South Central," the evidence still points that most people tend to think of Oklahoma in the same vein as Texas, Arkansas, and to a much lesser extent Louisiana. Whatever Oklahoma is....The Indian Nations, the West, or SOUTHwest, or the South, or South-Central, or just OKLAHOMA it is not the Midwest. Go look at the discussions pertaining to the Midwest right now and see how often Oklahoma is mentioned. I think you'll see it's very little, if at all. Often when Oklahoma is mentioned in such discussions so is Arkansas and even Texas. 
is not really boosting the credibility of your assertions.
