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More information for free willed people to make up their own minds. Druggies will always refuse to see facts in light of deviant behavior.
"Unsafe in Any Amount: How Marijuana Is Not Like Alcohol
Marijuana advocates have had some success peddling the notion that marijuana is a “soft” drug, similar to alcohol, and fundamentally different from “hard” drugs like cocaine or heroin. It is true that marijuana is not the most dangerous of the commonly abused drugs, but that is not to say that it is safe. Indeed, marijuana shares more in common with the “hard” drugs than it does with alcohol.
A common argument for legalization is that smoking marijuana is no more dangerous than drinking alcohol and that prohibiting the use of marijuana is therefore no more justified than the prohibition of alcohol. As Jacob Sullum, author of Saying Yes: In Defense of Drug Use, writes:
Americans understood the problems associated with alcohol abuse, but they also understood the problems associated with Prohibition, which included violence, organized crime, official corruption, the erosion of civil liberties, disrespect for the law, and injuries and deaths caused by tainted black-market booze. They decided that these unintended side effects far outweighed whatever harms Prohibition prevented by discouraging drinking. The same sort of analysis today would show that the harm caused by drug prohibition far outweighs the harm it prevents, even without taking into account the value to each individual of being sovereign over his own body and mind.[7]
At first blush, this argument is appealing, especially to those wary of over-regulation by government. But it overlooks the enormous difference between alcohol and marijuana.
Legalization advocates claim that marijuana and alcohol are mild intoxicants and so should be regulated similarly; but as the experience of nearly every culture, over the thousands of years of human history, demonstrates, alcohol is different. Nearly every culture has its own alcoholic preparations, and nearly all have successfully regulated alcohol consumption through cultural norms. The same cannot be said of marijuana. There are several possible explanations for alcohol’s unique status: For most people, it is not addictive; it is rarely consumed to the point of intoxication; low-level consumption is consistent with most manual and intellectual tasks; it has several positive health benefits; and it is formed by the fermentation of many common substances and easily metabolized by the body.
To be sure, there are costs associated with alcohol abuse, such as drunk driving and disease associated with excessive consumption. A few cultures—and this nation for a short while during Prohibition—have concluded that the benefits of alcohol consumption are not worth the costs. But they are the exception; most cultures have concluded that it is acceptable in moderation. No other intoxicant shares that status.
Alcohol differs from marijuana in several crucial respects. First, marijuana is far more likely to cause addiction. Second, it is usually consumed to the point of intoxication. Third, it has no known general healthful properties, though it may have some palliative effects. Fourth, it is toxic and deleterious to health. Thus, while it is true that both alcohol and marijuana are less intoxicating than other mood-altering drugs, that is not to say that marijuana is especially similar to alcohol or that its use is healthy or even safe.
In fact, compared to alcohol, marijuana is not safe. Long-term, moderate consumption of alcohol carries few health risks and even offers some significant benefits. For example, a glass of wine (or other alcoholic drink) with dinner actually improves health.[8] Dozens of peer-reviewed medical studies suggest that drinking moderate amounts of alcohol reduces the risk of heart disease, strokes, gallstones, diabetes, and death from a heart attack.[9] According to the Mayo Clinic, among many others, moderate use of alcohol (defined as two drinks a day) “seems to offer some health benefits, particularly for the heart.”[10] Countless articles in medical journals and other scientific literature confirm the positive health effects of moderate alcohol consumption.
The effects of regular marijuana consumption are quite different. For example, the National Institute on Drug Abuse (a division of the National Institutes of Health) has released studies showing that use of marijuana has wide-ranging negative health effects. Long-term marijuana consumption “impairs the ability of T-cells in the lungs’ immune system to fight off some infections.”[11] These studies have also found that marijuana consumption impairs short-term memory, making it difficult to learn and retain information or perform complex tasks; slows reaction time and impairs motor coordination; increases heart rate by 20 percent to 100 percent, thus elevating the risk of heart attack; and alters moods, resulting in artificial euphoria, calmness, or (in high doses) anxiety or paranoia.[12] And it gets worse: Marijuana has toxic properties that can result in birth defects, pain, respiratory system damage, brain damage, and stroke.[13]
Further, prolonged use of marijuana may cause cognitive degradation and is “associated with lower test scores and lower educational attainment because during periods of intoxication the drug affects the ability to learn and process information, thus influencing attention, concentration, and short-term memory.”[14] Unlike alcohol, marijuana has been shown to have a residual effect on cognitive ability that persists beyond the period of intoxication.[15] According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, whereas alcohol is broken down relatively quickly in the human body, THC (tetrahydrocannabinol, the main active chemical in marijuana) is stored in organs and fatty tissues, allowing it to remain in a user’s body for days or even weeks after consumption.[16] Research has shown that marijuana consumption may also cause “psychotic symptoms.”[17]
Marijuana’s effects on the body are profound. According to the British Lung Foundation, “smoking three or four marijuana joints is as bad for your lungs as smoking twenty tobacco cigarettes.”[18] Researchers in Canada found that marijuana smoke contains significantly higher levels of numerous toxic compounds, like ammonia and hydrogen cyanide, than regular tobacco smoke.[19] In fact, the study determined that ammonia was found in marijuana smoke at levels of up to 20 times the levels found in tobacco.[20] Similarly, hydrogen cyanide was found in marijuana smoke at concentrations three to five times greater than those found in tobacco smoke.[21]
Marijuana, like tobacco, is addictive. One study found that more than 30 percent of adults who used marijuana in the course of a year were dependent on the drug.[22] These individuals often show signs of withdrawal and compulsive behavior.[23] Marijuana dependence is also responsible for a large proportion of calls to drug abuse help lines and treatment centers.
To equate marijuana use with alcohol consumption is, at best, uninformed and, at worst, actively misleading. Only in the most superficial ways are the two substances alike, and they differ in every way that counts: addictiveness, toxicity, health effects, and risk of intoxication."
I personally do not think alcohol is a good drug either and I personally do not use any mind altering substances. legal or not.... whatsoever... but I also relaize humans are different and have different desires. I desire a life free from a drug as a crutch or escape and free from salvery in a pill or joint. I dont think my life works for everyone.. but I also believe I should not be impacted by another persons desire to be stoned... and marijuana has has a huge impact on the qualtiy of life where I live... and costs all of us dearly through higher responder costs. hosptital costs, education costs, enforcement costs, social costs.. on and on
When you look at your personal freedoms this year look at how the current party has destroyed America and taken liberty away from all of us... of course they want a sedate dumbed down population.. stoners are easy to control...... and how druggies,again, want all of us to think their behavior is acceptable for large scale consumption
It is not... by any measurable matrix... drugs continue to be bad for society on all levels
Folks, the above negative views on marijuana only amount to useless, baseless, uninformed garbage. Make no doubt about it, whatsoever. If I'm wrong, then how the hell do you explain how this legal federal medical marijuana patient, pictured, who has been getting 300 joints in a big tin can every month from the federal government for the past 30 years, is still healthy looking and holding down a highly responsible job? People who are uniformed about this man, Irvin Rosenfeld, might enjoy reading his autobiography:
By the way, Gov. Fallin, in a big surprise move, announced her support for trial use of a marijuana ingredient to help some sick children, such as those with epilepsy. Aren't you gravely alarmed this Republican led move will be a stepping stone of support, ultimately leading to full legalization of rec marijuana in Oklahoma, like in Colorado?
It's easier than before for him to choose what bandwagon to jump on since he's not running for reelection. As for Gov. Fallin, she's only trying to toss a small bone to the record number of new registered Oklahoma voters the medical marijuana petition drive got on board. Now very late into the drive, it's still uncertain if they can get enough signatures.
Location: The edge of the world and all of Western civilization
984 posts, read 1,192,051 times
Reputation: 1691
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie
,
It's easier than before for him to choose what bandwagon to jump on since he's not running for reelection. As for Gov. Fallin, she's only trying to toss a small bone to the record number of new registered Oklahoma voters the medical marijuana petition drive got on board. Now very late into the drive, it's still uncertain if they can get enough signatures.
I don't think it matters too much if they can't. There's always 2016, and proponents can evaluate what they did wrong this time around and learn from it, such as better public outreach and education, putting a human face on the issue, and yes, getting more people like notmeofficer to preach from the pulpit, because they have an ironic effect on the issues they fight. I mentioned Elvis earlier, and the same could be said for Lenny Bruce and Howard Stern. People who fought them ended up paving the way for progress and made them larger successes. The same thing goes for issues: the more these people talk, the worse they make themselves look.
I don't think it matters too much if they can't. There's always 2016, and proponents can evaluate what they did wrong this time around and learn from it, such as better public outreach and education, putting a human face on the issue, and yes, getting more people like notmeofficer to preach from the pulpit, because they have an ironic effect on the issues they fight. I mentioned Elvis earlier, and the same could be said for Lenny Bruce and Howard Stern. People who fought them ended up paving the way for progress and made them larger successes. The same thing goes for issues: the more these people talk, the worse they make themselves look.
I think the main thing that went wrong with the campaign was it starting out without adequate funding, but hoping a lot more would come in. It never did. Nevertheless, their small paid mobile crew got to many of the larger small towns in Oklahoma, except for the southeast part when funds ran out.
Meantime, please nobody say they were 420 signatures short.
Location: The edge of the world and all of Western civilization
984 posts, read 1,192,051 times
Reputation: 1691
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie
I think the main thing that went wrong with the campaign was it starting out without adequate funding, but hoping a lot more would come in. It never did. Nevertheless, their small paid mobile crew got to many of the larger small towns in Oklahoma, except for the southeast part when funds ran out.
Meantime, please nobody say they were 420 signatures short.
Its potential defeat could still galvanize people to try again in 2016, so long as it's pushed again then. Back home, expanded public transit kept popping up on ballots and it got voted down every time... until the early 2000s. People grew so sick of continuously worsening traffic that they voted for a tax increase, which led to a light rail, more bus routes and commuter buses. Funny story, after it was approved and they started construction, a guy like notmeofficer kept pushing to halt construction and lower taxes (and similarly used the same repetitive, faulty arguments). He was voted out of office a short while later, and the system is doing fine now. It's actually set for expansion with several new lines being explored. Anyway, the point is that even if it's defeated now, it's not dead. Personally, I think they could examine any type of measure requiring signatures in Phoenix, Miami, Las Vegas and Denver and learn from them, simply because there is a somewhat growing transplant (transient?) population here, and those cities have much higher percentages of non-natives. That may seem inconsequential, but depending on their circumstances, they may or may not be motivated to vote in local elections, though it's possible they could change the outcome. A lot of times, transplants (myself included) have more loyalties to their home states and are by and large apathetic to local politics because they don't care about the local community and/or have little interest in staying here. Still, on those aforementioned cities, measures do make it on the ballot and they could be good learning tools for Oklahoma.
Rarely is any election or ballot truly repesentative of the will of the people.. sadly many Americans dont care about their ability to vote.. unless its their Obama phone type stuff
Mj proponents have been pouring in huge narco terrorist profits into lobbying.. lobbying affects politicians.. politicians drive issues... the media (usually liberal) also loves to drive drama and stick it to anything remotely involving social moderation
So you showed us one person you allege uses MJ over a long period of time with self reported success.... your same government also infected Americans with diseases to see how they would affect the population
But.. lets take your point as valid.. then I assume you would go for a 10 year full blown FDA study prior to medical marijuana going full scale.. I mean like any other drug.. or do you think because its marijuana and you've made up your mind as to its efficacy.. potentcy.. purity.. side effects.. toxic effects.. documented use... abuse... and medical impact that we should just take your word and make it legal?
Utter pure crap
We already have marinol.. dopers wont use it.. wont get them high
We already have tinctures... opps.. tests show low in CBD and high in thc.. so low in the active ingredient that actually may help ( high CBd's) epilepsy.. and unfortunately because there are no restrctions also high in thc.. which makes the person (usually children) high not healthy.. nope dopers want no controls as to that
Any medicine in the US has to go through a ten year trial.. why not MJ ???... because dopers want no controls on anything that might effect their ability to regulate thc content.. now approaching 35 plus percent toxicity.. (and before you say MJ isnt toxic... start looking at medical reports emerging... while MJ death ODs are still in low (depending upon the research and attributible factors) they are now starting as its use become more wide spread)
Druggies NEVER will address anti marijuana studies because many of their postitions are indefensible
Please tell us why we should pay for you when you come down with breathing difficulties (green lung or tokers cough)
Or have lost productivity due to thc in your system (or are you saying MJ makes you more productive and want to point to some story about one person).. ok.. if you want to profess that then Im one person who knows the exact opposite and sees it firsthand everyday.. and Im reporting huge deleterious effects upon an entire community
Would you be happy with an agreement to cut social welfare to those who use MJ regularly.. because of it deleterious effects upon productivity?.. is it ok to drug test for welfare.. or perhaps not in your utopian doper nation
Would you be ok with health care denied to those who chronically abuse marijuana.. I mean who smoke it daily.. perhaps several times a day.. I would be.. why should I pay for you to abuse your body through higher premiums for me.. Ill give you rehab one time.. then I would cut you off... Rehab clinics in California are making a switchover to MJ... because dopers have narco dollars to spend
Who is going to grow this dope.. where and how.. and under what conditions... and will it get priority over food?..
Will it be taxed under your system of fairness as a recreational drug.. I mean after you (the greater you) lie and tell all the rest of us its for medicinal use... and then free for all it like every other state who has tried.. (even those states who do tax it see the huge black market for it).. more enforcement dollars bigger government.. more regulations
Nope.. dope and dopers continue to be bad on every level and any measurable matrix for America... they bring NOTHING positive to the table except slavery at the end of a pipe... look at China and the opium wars... think the most powerful nation on earth cant be diminshed by widespread drug use and doper nation ideology???...
Again.. all of this BS is about selfish and psychologically damaged people people running away from reality...
We should be sorry for the druggies ... but we should not enable them in anyway
Vote no Oklahoma... "Labor omnia vincit"
You might have to change the state motto if dopers get their way to "semper excelsum".... I can just picture the smoke swirling around your computer
Last edited by notmeofficer; 08-16-2014 at 01:52 PM..
The old expression about everything being bigger in Texas just got trumped by what's happening in California. In my career as a reporter, I've been on more than a few drug raids and seen my fair share of marijuana plants. But nothing prepared me for what's growing in northern California. As Mendocino Sheriff Tom Allman describes them, they're "super-mega-steroid marijuana plants. We followed Sheriff Allman along on a raid near Ukiah where deputies had just discovered more than a hundred plants the size of giant Christmas trees, some reaching 15 feet high. It's the latest trend in pot farms, or what are increasingly looking like pot plantations! So how'd they get so big? Sheriff Allman says it's a combination of genetic modification, fertilizers, pesticides, California's ideal growing climate and water, lots of water.
While the super plants we found in an illegal growing operation were in Mendocino County, they're popping up all over the state, and much of the time on public land where illegal large-scale cultivation of marijuana is destroying local ecosystems. And, increasingly, it's not locals who are farming the pot plants. Allman told me that Latin American, even European syndicates, have moved in to the back woods where they are growing far from prying eyes. This is a multi-billion dollar business and those who I spoke to used words like "crisis" and "out of control" to describe what's going on here. Think about this -- illegal marijuana farms in northern California are actually sucking the mighty Eel River dry, and that's threatening the native salmon population.
Big time marijuana operations are the subject of our latest investigation for Dan Rather Reports on AXS TV. While the diversion of water from rivers is a big concern, the use of toxic pesticides -- some banned long ago in the U.S. -- to keep anything and everything away from crops is also troubling. These pesticides are poisoning wildlife and contaminating the water supply. We also discovered that these chemicals show up in marijuana that's not only headed for the black market, but in supplies due to be sold in California's medical dispensaries.
When you start looking at all these concerns over the environment and the health of individuals smoking pot, it's hard not to think that whatever we're doing to control this drug is simply not working.
Unlike other agriculture, there is no crop insurance for marijuana growers. That means that many farmers will use any means necessary to guarantee a return on their investment -- even when it means spraying harmful chemicals or draining a creek dry that is home to endangered fish. This needs to change.
More teenagers today are turning to pot than cigarettes. As societal attitudes towards marijuana have shifted -- 20 states plus the District of Columbia have made medical marijuana legal -- we must move beyond debates on whether or not it should be legal. It is time we start discussing how we can guarantee that marijuana is not destroying the environment or poisoning the people who smoke it. "
Exactly what Im experiencing... think Oklahoma will be different.. nope same behavior different place.. I dont agree with some of Dan Rather's points.. I would like to see families engage in better parenting so that we dont have to get to a place where society has to address moral compass behavior..
Rarely is any election or ballot truly repesentative of the will of the people.. sadly many Americans dont care about their ability to vote.. unless its their Obama phone type stuff
Mj proponents have been pouring in huge narco terrorist profits into lobbying.. lobbying affects politicians.. politicians drive issues... the media (usually liberal) also loves to drive drama and stick it to anything remotely involving social moderation
So you showed us one person you allege uses MJ over a long period of time with self reported success.... your same government also infected Americans with diseases to see how they would affect the population
But.. lets take your point as valid.. then I assume you would go for a 10 year full blown FDA study prior to medical marijuana going full scale.. I mean like any other drug.. or do you think because its marijuana and you've made up your mind as to its efficacy.. potentcy.. purity.. side effects.. toxic effects.. documented use... abuse... and medical impact that we should just take your word and make it legal?
Utter pure crap
We already have marinol.. dopers wont use it.. wont get them high
We already have tinctures... opps.. tests show low in CBD and high in thc.. so low in the active ingredient that actually may help ( high CBd's) epilepsy.. and unfortunately because there are no restrctions also high in thc.. which makes the person (usually children) high not healthy.. nope dopers want no controls as to that
Any medicine in the US has to go through a ten year trial.. why not MJ ???... because dopers want no controls on anything that might effect their ability to regulate thc content.. now approaching 35 plus percent toxicity.. (and before you say MJ isnt toxic... start looking at medical reports emerging... while MJ death ODs are still in low (depending upon the research and attributible factors) they are now starting as its use become more wide spread)
Druggies NEVER will address anti marijuana studies because many of their postitions are indefensible
Please tell us why we should pay for you when you come down with breathing difficulties (green lung or tokers cough)
Or have lost productivity due to thc in your system (or are you saying MJ makes you more productive and want to point to some story about one person).. ok.. if you want to profess that then Im one person who knows the exact opposite and sees it firsthand everyday.. and Im reporting huge deleterious effects upon an entire community
Would you be happy with an agreement to cut social welfare to those who use MJ regularly.. because of it deleterious effects upon productivity?.. is it ok to drug test for welfare.. or perhaps not in your utopian doper nation
Would you be ok with health care denied to those who chronically abuse marijuana.. I mean who smoke it daily.. perhaps several times a day.. I would be.. why should I pay for you to abuse your body through higher premiums for me.. Ill give you rehab one time.. then I would cut you off... Rehab clinics in California are making a switchover to MJ... because dopers have narco dollars to spend
Who is going to grow this dope.. where and how.. and under what conditions... and will it get priority over food?..
Will it be taxed under your system of fairness as a recreational drug.. I mean after you (the greater you) lie and tell all the rest of us its for medicinal use... and then free for all it like every other state who has tried.. (even those states who do tax it see the huge black market for it).. more enforcement dollars bigger government.. more regulations
Nope.. dope and dopers continue to be bad on every level and any measurable matrix for America... they bring NOTHING positive to the table except slavery at the end of a pipe... look at China and the opium wars... think the most powerful nation on earth cant be diminshed by widespread drug use and doper nation ideology???...
Again.. all of this BS is about selfish and psychologically damaged people people running away from reality...
We should be sorry for the druggies ... but we should not enable them in anyway
Vote no Oklahoma... "Labor omnia vincit"
You might have to change the state motto if dopers get their way to "semper excelsum".... I can just picture the smoke swirling around your computer
I don't smoke marijuana. But why should I join you in your desire to give free room and board to marijuana smokers via prison time?
Please get educated about Irvin Rosenfeld. It is as absolutely obvious as it can be that you are totally clueless about who he is.
People have the right to try other herbal based remedies for their ills, without waiting for FDA approved drugs to be approved from them. Ever heard of Kratom?
Marinol is costly, and one of its side effects is that it can get you high.
Since you want to continue to defend the failed government program of drug prohibition, I find that quite pitiful. Many of us want to move on from such costly failure. Prohibition has taken the lives of too many people, too many of them innocent or destroyed their future. Prison time can be worse on human potential and productivity than the illegal drug itself.
The old expression about everything being bigger in Texas just got trumped by what's happening in California. In my career as a reporter, I've been on more than a few drug raids and seen my fair share of marijuana plants. But nothing prepared me for what's growing in northern California. As Mendocino Sheriff Tom Allman describes them, they're "super-mega-steroid marijuana plants. We followed Sheriff Allman along on a raid near Ukiah where deputies had just discovered more than a hundred plants the size of giant Christmas trees, some reaching 15 feet high. It's the latest trend in pot farms, or what are increasingly looking like pot plantations! So how'd they get so big? Sheriff Allman says it's a combination of genetic modification, fertilizers, pesticides, California's ideal growing climate and water, lots of water.
While the super plants we found in an illegal growing operation were in Mendocino County, they're popping up all over the state, and much of the time on public land where illegal large-scale cultivation of marijuana is destroying local ecosystems. And, increasingly, it's not locals who are farming the pot plants. Allman told me that Latin American, even European syndicates, have moved in to the back woods where they are growing far from prying eyes. This is a multi-billion dollar business and those who I spoke to used words like "crisis" and "out of control" to describe what's going on here. Think about this -- illegal marijuana farms in northern California are actually sucking the mighty Eel River dry, and that's threatening the native salmon population.
Big time marijuana operations are the subject of our latest investigation for Dan Rather Reports on AXS TV. While the diversion of water from rivers is a big concern, the use of toxic pesticides -- some banned long ago in the U.S. -- to keep anything and everything away from crops is also troubling. These pesticides are poisoning wildlife and contaminating the water supply. We also discovered that these chemicals show up in marijuana that's not only headed for the black market, but in supplies due to be sold in California's medical dispensaries.
When you start looking at all these concerns over the environment and the health of individuals smoking pot, it's hard not to think that whatever we're doing to control this drug is simply not working.
Unlike other agriculture, there is no crop insurance for marijuana growers. That means that many farmers will use any means necessary to guarantee a return on their investment -- even when it means spraying harmful chemicals or draining a creek dry that is home to endangered fish. This needs to change.
More teenagers today are turning to pot than cigarettes. As societal attitudes towards marijuana have shifted -- 20 states plus the District of Columbia have made medical marijuana legal -- we must move beyond debates on whether or not it should be legal. It is time we start discussing how we can guarantee that marijuana is not destroying the environment or poisoning the people who smoke it. "
Exactly what Im experiencing... think Oklahoma will be different.. nope same behavior different place.. I dont agree with some of Dan Rather's points.. I would like to see families engage in better parenting so that we dont have to get to a place where society has to address moral compass behavior..
Once again, control it by legalizing and regulating it. What the government tries to ban, it loses control over it. I don't hear of any controversy over the growing of tobacco fields. Why? Because it's legal.
And quit acting behind the times. THREE years ago, the UN Global Commission on Drug Policy announced that the world had lost the long war against illegal drugs. Its 22 eminent members concluded that there remained only one feasible response: legalise the trade. More at: Legalising drugs is the only way to win this war - Independent.ie
By the way, notmeofficer, are you also ignorant of the fact that back in 1972 that Consumers Union recommended that marijuana be legalized? Now decades later, it still stands by that recommendation.
Last edited by StillwaterTownie; 08-17-2014 at 01:00 AM..
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