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They could get a 1500 sq foot 3/2 in Wilark Park West for $250ish. It is about an hour and 15 to the airport during non-rush hour times.
I don't really get what is going on with wanting to find friends with that lifestyle? I mean if you have meat-eating friends, will you not go out to lunch with them? We have a lot of meat eaters here because we have an active hunting/fishing/clamming culture here. Most people here, even our conservative folks, tend to prefer local grass-fed beef. Buying half a cow direct from a rancher is very common here.
Salem, Corvallis, and Eugene all have people that live that lifestyle, but Eugene is more hippie/liberal than Corvallis or Eugene. So I guess where is a good fit depends on how you approach meat eaters. If you can't sit and have friends that eat paleo type diets (lots of that here), then probably Eugene is the best. It's the most "alternative" of the cities, but "alternative" is pretty normal here.
Silverfall, I'm really not sure what part of my original post led you to believe that I would not have meat-eating friends because they do not live my "lifestyle". That could not be further from the truth. In fact, none of our friends and family eat a whole-food plant-based diet, and I can assure you we have no problem getting together for a meal. In my post when I was addressing lifestyle, I clearly stated that I was referring to us being a non-religious family. This is what I wrote - "We find it very difficult to make like-minded friends and worry that our children will be ostracized should word get out that we are not religious." I even stated that we try to have a "to each their own" attitude.
The reason for my concern is not unfounded. We have had more than one negative experience around religious beliefs here in the South, including my 8-year-old being told that she was going to go to hell because she did not go to church. This happened when she was 6. We also know a family whose kids were singled out in their own neighborhood. Word got out of the family's non-religion, and it became a very uncomfortable living situation. Other kids in the neighborhood were told not to play with the family's children because they didn't believe in God. And that is in a nice suburb of Atlanta, not rural Georgia. I could give more examples, but seeing as how this is a serious digression from my original post, I will refrain.
As far as my diet, since you've decided to bring that into my post about relocation, I did not state that I am a vegan. I actually pointed out that it is similar, but is not centered around animals. I have an allergy to all animal products, including dairy. My daughters have the same allergy. I spent the majority of my life, up until about 2 years ago, not knowing what made me sick regularly. Doctors diagnosed it as IBS with no real solution. Since being diagnosed and switching to a whole food plant-based diet, I have never felt better, nor have my daughters. Incidentally, my husband switched to our diet to support our needs, and his medical records and health are excellent.
I believe it is rather naive to say that it is "really hard" to be healthy and be a vegan, if you have never tried it yourself. I actually find it to be quite easy. Plus, you should remember that as a "vegan" you could sit around all day eating Oreos and still be following the vegan rules. Hence the distinction between vegan and whole-food plant-based. If you would ever like to have a conversation about this, I would be more than happy to discuss that with you outside of this forum, since I believe it is unrelated to my original post. The only reason that I included information about my diet is to give readers a better idea of our family, in hopes that we might receive recommendations on communities that have great farmers markets and the like.
I do appreciate your recommendation of Wilark Park West, and I will be sure to add that to my list of areas to check out.
Thanks for all the recommendations. We definitely plan to spend time in all the major cities/areas - Portland, Salem, Eugene, Corvallis, and Medford. If anyone has any specific suburb recommendations for these cities that would be of the greatest help. We don't plan to live in a city, but rather on the outskirts.
If you know any nice communities that fit the bill, please me know! Thanks!
You will not find teaching jobs in Eugene. The U of O pumps out hundreds of education majors and there are probably more unemployed or underemployed teachers in Eugene who are working as baristas or bike mechanics as any place on the west coast.
Having moved back to the northwest from Texas as a teacher 2 years ago I went through all of this. My advice is the following:
1. Start NOW to get your teaching credentials transferred over to both Oregon and Washington. Washington was a little bit less paperwork but neither required me to do any additional coursework, just some tests that I was able to do at a Kaplan Test Center in TX.
2. Start looking online for jobs in early spring. The districts that are most on the ball will start posting openings as early as Feb but usually they don't show until March or April. I was able to do skype interviews for 3 of the 4 jobs I applied for. I had to fly out for the Vancouver school district job fair but nothing came of that.
3. Your most fertile hunting ground will probably be the greater Vancouver area just north of Portland. Washington schools are better funded than Oregon schools which means more jobs and better conditions (smaller class sizes etc). The greater Vancouver area is growing fast and most of the surrounding districts have recently passed bonds which means new schools. Camas school district is currently constructing a new elementary and a new alternative HS. Ridgefield is building a new middle school. And so forth. Plus from Vancouver you have an easy reverse direction commute out to various smaller rural districts in SW Washington that have more difficulty finding teachers. Longview, for example, has a harder time finding teachers and there are those who live in north Vancouver and commute daily to Longview. It's about a 35 minute drive give or take.
If you have both OR and WA credentials you can expand your hunt to the Portland area and Willamette Valley.
Good Luck!
Thanks so much for all the great info! We've already looked into getting state certified, and we have a plan for that. Jobs here start posting in early spring as well, so we will be looking around that time. I really appreciate the info on the growth in the Vancouver area. I had not really explored Vancouver as an option, but several people have recommended that we take a look there. We were already planning to look in both Washington and Oregon, and this just may be the best of both worlds. Also, we've had a ton of recommendations for Eugene, so the information that you provided is helpful as it might not be the most viable option.
I don't recommend Medford/Ashland. Ashland is great, but Medford isn't. Your distance to major airports is even longer and southern Oregon is arguably more conservative than the eastern part. There is a lot of cool recreation in southern Oregon, but unless you're really in love with it I recommend visiting, not living.
The reason it is "arguable" is that I think you are wrong. Southern Oregon is pretty much a microcosm of Oregon politics - the cities tend left-of-center, the rural areas tend right-of-center. Jackson County, as a whole, voted for Trump over Clinton, 48% to 41% and the highest percentage 3rd party votes went to the Libertarian candidate. But Jackson County's population is split into pretty much two halves - the two largest cities, Medford (85,000), Ashland (25,000) and then another 110,000+ in very small cities and rural areas. If you look at the precinct results, Medford and Ashland tend to vote to the left, everyone else to the right (using broad categories and going by the 2016 election). Note that Grants Pass is in Josephine County and not included in those numbers.
A lot of the area, particularly out in, say, the Applegate, is what I would describe as out beyond conventional politics - out on the back side of the political spectrum, picking and choosing between what are generally thought of as "right" or "left" politics and putting them together in a sort of mish-mash. For instance, anti-gun (as in the Feds should step in and take away guns) and anti-vax (The Feds can't tell me I have to vaccinate my child).
The Medford airport serves about 10% fewer passengers than the Eugene airport (odd because the areas is at least 25% smaller than Eugene's service area, I guess they compete with PDX, probably why their prices are lower than ours), with direct flights to Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Denver. Anywhere else is going to be a connection.
Added: As far as the OP's question - finding 2 jobs in the schools here might be dicey, as this is a relatively small area and somewhat isolated. There are some schools which are either rated well (although I think the on-line ratings are of questionable value) or that parents I know are happy with.
The other thing I think the OP will be happy with are the farmers markets and CSAs throughout much of Western Oregon - good selection of fresh local produce mostly year-round.
My wife is vegan and I mostly am. Especially when we go out to eat. Portland has more vegan restaurants than probably any place else in the country. Certainly more than in Seattle which I visit freqently. https://www.pdxmonthly.com/features/...an-food-scene/ The stuff about plant-based diets being unhealthy is utter nonsense.
I'm originally from Oregon (grew up in Eugene and went to college in Portland and Seattle) but we lived in Texas for a decade before moving back so I know what you mean about religion in the south. Here no one will care at all what church you go to or don't go to.
Here is a a real rough stereotype about the different regions of the country: Ask someone to tell you about themselves....
In the east they will tell you about their career
In the south they will tell you about their church
In the west they will tell you about their recreational activities (skiing, climbing, art, recreational pot, etc)
When we moved back to the northwest a year and a half ago, my wife's employer basically offered her positions any place she wanted in Eugene, Salem, Portland, Beaverton, Hillsboro, and Vancouver. We chose Vancouver (Camas actually) for four big reasons. First, the employement prospects for me in education were better in Vancouver than any of the other options and we had to pick her job location before I could start looking for teaching jobs. So that was a roll of the dice. Second, the schools are generally better funded in Washington than in Oregon so for neighborhoods with equivalent demographs you'll likely find the schools on the WA side to have more resources. Third, the taxes will be lower for an upper middle class family in WA. With one kid attening an out of state university that is a big difference. Fourth, the quality of public universities is higher in WA and there are more and better options. Oregon has not kept pace for funding higher education. Otherwise, OR and WA are pretty similar.
Last edited by texasdiver; 01-22-2018 at 03:54 PM..
Silverfall, I'm really not sure what part of my original post led you to believe that I would not have meat-eating friends because they do not live my "lifestyle". That could not be further from the truth. In fact, none of our friends and family eat a whole-food plant-based diet, and I can assure you we have no problem getting together for a meal. In my post when I was addressing lifestyle, I clearly stated that I was referring to us being a non-religious family. This is what I wrote - "We find it very difficult to make like-minded friends and worry that our children will be ostracized should word get out that we are not religious." I even stated that we try to have a "to each their own" attitude.
The reason for my concern is not unfounded. We have had more than one negative experience around religious beliefs here in the South, including my 8-year-old being told that she was going to go to hell because she did not go to church. This happened when she was 6. We also know a family whose kids were singled out in their own neighborhood. Word got out of the family's non-religion, and it became a very uncomfortable living situation. Other kids in the neighborhood were told not to play with the family's children because they didn't believe in God. And that is in a nice suburb of Atlanta, not rural Georgia. I could give more examples, but seeing as how this is a serious digression from my original post, I will refrain.
As far as my diet, since you've decided to bring that into my post about relocation, I did not state that I am a vegan. I actually pointed out that it is similar, but is not centered around animals. I have an allergy to all animal products, including dairy. My daughters have the same allergy. I spent the majority of my life, up until about 2 years ago, not knowing what made me sick regularly. Doctors diagnosed it as IBS with no real solution. Since being diagnosed and switching to a whole food plant-based diet, I have never felt better, nor have my daughters. Incidentally, my husband switched to our diet to support our needs, and his medical records and health are excellent.
I believe it is rather naive to say that it is "really hard" to be healthy and be a vegan, if you have never tried it yourself. I actually find it to be quite easy. Plus, you should remember that as a "vegan" you could sit around all day eating Oreos and still be following the vegan rules. Hence the distinction between vegan and whole-food plant-based. If you would ever like to have a conversation about this, I would be more than happy to discuss that with you outside of this forum, since I believe it is unrelated to my original post. The only reason that I included information about my diet is to give readers a better idea of our family, in hopes that we might receive recommendations on communities that have great farmers markets and the like.
I do appreciate your recommendation of Wilark Park West, and I will be sure to add that to my list of areas to check out.
Best, JR
I interpreted your comment "trying to find like-minded friends" to mean the same type of veganish diet and non-religious since those were all part of your previous sentences. Hence, my comment about meat eaters. There is a subset of vegan/vegetarians that are very anti-meat eater and not particularly nice about it. Your comments made me think you might be in that particular sub-group since how you eat isn't relevant to life out here.
Diets like that are hard because a lot of people aren't vigilant about balancing out their food. Hence they become unhealthy. It is just what I see out here. I don't think I'm naive, but being realistic. I know several former vegans. Your allergies change the urgency of the diet for you though so I imagine you figure out ways to have a lot of variety, make food interesting, and meet your nutritional needs.
It is possible that your children will hear negative things out here regarding being non-religious. Despite the fact that Oregon has low church attendance, we do have an evangelical contingent here. One of my friends' daughters weren't invited to a birthday party by really good friends because they were agnostic (her mom wouldn't allow her daughter to invite them). Most of the time it isn't an issue, but if you are trying to escape all possibilities of that, no guarantees.
Eugene is less churchy than Salem, but you'd likely have a better shot at a job in Salem since we are farther away from U of O. That said it isn't churchy like the south is.
I interpreted your comment "trying to find like-minded friends" to mean the same type of veganish diet and non-religious since those were all part of your previous sentences. Hence, my comment about meat eaters. There is a subset of vegan/vegetarians that are very anti-meat eater and not particularly nice about it. Your comments made me think you might be in that particular sub-group since how you eat isn't relevant to life out here.
Diets like that are hard because a lot of people aren't vigilant about balancing out their food. Hence they become unhealthy. It is just what I see out here. I don't think I'm naive, but being realistic. I know several former vegans. Your allergies change the urgency of the diet for you though so I imagine you figure out ways to have a lot of variety, make food interesting, and meet your nutritional needs.
It is possible that your children will hear negative things out here regarding being non-religious. Despite the fact that Oregon has low church attendance, we do have an evangelical contingent here. One of my friends' daughters weren't invited to a birthday party by really good friends because they were agnostic (her mom wouldn't allow her daughter to invite them). Most of the time it isn't an issue, but if you are trying to escape all possibilities of that, no guarantees.
Eugene is less churchy than Salem, but you'd likely have a better shot at a job in Salem since we are farther away from U of O. That said it isn't churchy like the south is.
People who have not lived in the south have no idea what living in a "churchy" area is like. My wife and I spent a decade in Waco before returning to the Pacific Northwest. This is what we experienced.
At least half the people you meet socially through work and such ask you what church you attend. The operating assumption is that you have a church affiliation. And you are immediately categorized by your answer. Baptist, Methodist, or a big local unaffiliated megachurch are the mainstream answers. Lutheran means you might be a Yankee. Episcopal is the liberal answer. Catholic the "ethnic" answer. Anything else is a bit of a raised eyebrow answer.
At public jobs working for public institutions in education (me) and healthcare (my wife) you'll get endless invites for morning prayer meetings. You'll have colleagues stand up at meetings and lead "spontaneous" group prayers. And if you sit in on hiring committees you'll hear candidates compared on the basis of intangible "leadership qualities" which you won't really understand until it dawns on you that they are actually speaking in code about church membership and attendance. In the public school system I have seen candidates for administrative positions (principals and assistant principals) rejected or approved based on "leadership qualities" when what they really meant was that one candidate was active leader in the "right" church and the other candidate was not. My wife noticed the same thing when it came to hiring doctors at a PUBLIC clinic.
In public schools you'll see the youth groups of the big megachurches all wear matching color-coded t-shirts on certain days so everyone at school knows who belongs to which church and those kids who don't?....well we know who they are also. Your kids will be constantly invited to all kinds of big church social events like overnight "lock-ins" where you drop them off with their friends at a church on a Friday evening with a sleeping bag and they hang in a giant supervised slumber party to play games, watch movies, and get evangelized by the youth pastors until the next morning. My oldest daughter fit right in. My middle daughter found that all her best friends from elementary school started to peel away by intermediate and middle school because she wasn't in their church youth groups. It was a relief for her to find new friends here in the Northwest when we moved.
Professional networks completely overlap with church networks. If you want to sell insurance or real estate or do any kind of business that requires contacts you had better have a church network or you won't go far. We lived a couple of blocks away from a big Baptist megachurch. Every Sunday I would see my neighbor's insurance agency truck parked in the church parking lot right at the entrance where everyone would pass by. He owned a State Farm agency and his Ford F-150 was completely wrapped with his business signs and logos so it was a moving billboard for his business. You would see up to a dozen similar vehicles parked in the church lot every Sunday a.m. so the hundreds of people attending would know who to by their insurance from, who to call for an exterminator, who to call for plumbing or landscaping, etc. etc.
Religion is utterly pervasive if you want to move in middle class or upper middle class circles.
Here in the Pacific Northwest? NONE of that ever happens. Ever. At least we don't ever encounter it in our daily professional or personal lives and neither do our kids.
Last edited by texasdiver; 01-22-2018 at 06:36 PM..
People who have not lived in the south have no idea what living in a "churchy" area is like. My wife and I spent a decade in Waco before returning to the Pacific Northwest. This is what we experienced.
At least half the people you meet socially through work and such ask you what church you attend. The operating assumption is that you have a church affiliation. And you are immediately categorized by your answer. Baptist, Methodist, or a big local unaffiliated megachurch are the mainstream answers. Lutheran means you might be a Yankee. Episcopal is the liberal answer. Catholic the "ethnic" answer. Anything else is a bit of a raised eyebrow answer.
At public jobs working for public institutions in education (me) and healthcare (my wife) you'll get endless invites for morning prayer meetings. You'll have colleagues stand up at meetings and lead "spontaneous" group prayers. And if you sit in on hiring committees you'll hear candidates compared on the basis of intangible "leadership qualities" which you won't really understand until it dawns on you that they are actually speaking in code about church membership and attendance. In the public school system I have seen candidates for administrative positions (principals and assistant principals) rejected or approved based on "leadership qualities" when what they really meant was that one candidate was active leader in the "right" church and the other candidate was not. My wife noticed the same thing when it came to hiring doctors at a PUBLIC clinic.
In public schools you'll see the youth groups of the big megachurches all wear matching color-coded t-shirts on certain days so everyone at school knows who belongs to which church and those kids who don't?....well we know who they are also. Your kids will be constantly invited to all kinds of big church social events like overnight "lock-ins" where you drop them off with their friends at a church on a Friday evening with a sleeping bag and they hang in a giant supervised slumber party to play games, watch movies, and get evangelized by the youth pastors until the next morning. My oldest daughter fit right in. My middle daughter found that all her best friends from elementary school started to peel away by intermediate and middle school because she wasn't in their church youth groups. It was a relief for her to find new friends here in the Northwest when we moved.
Professional networks completely overlap with church networks. If you want to sell insurance or real estate or do any kind of business that requires contacts you had better have a church network or you won't go far. We lived a couple of blocks away from a big Baptist megachurch. Every Sunday I would see my neighbor's insurance agency truck parked in the church parking lot right at the entrance where everyone would pass by. He owned a State Farm agency and his Ford F-150 was completely wrapped with his business signs and logos so it was a moving billboard for his business. You would see up to a dozen similar vehicles parked in the church lot every Sunday a.m. so the hundreds of people attending would know who to by their insurance from, who to call for an exterminator, who to call for plumbing or landscaping, etc. etc.
Religion is utterly pervasive if you want to move in middle class or upper middle class circles.
Here in the Pacific Northwest? NONE of that ever happens. Ever. At least we don't ever encounter it in our daily professional or personal lives and neither do our kids.
Out here in the western burbs, Beaverton and Tigard especially, there is a more noticeable religious presence especially Mormons and “Christians”, not necessarily Evangelical but big church Christians. I am brought up Catholic in SF though I am not going to church right now because I have “issues” with the church and my kids are not so into going. I am mostly wanting my kid to feel connected to God, whatever God they choose is fine with me. Anyway, I have noticed the BYU sweatshirts and coded language out here and it’s a Mormon thing. So far... more than half of our kids’ friends have relatively non- religious families and the other half are somewhat active in some kind of faith. It’s a mixed bag. Most people can separate church and state but not everybody. I am finding out the hard way. Just saying.
You will not find teaching jobs in Eugene. The U of O pumps out hundreds of education majors and there are probably more unemployed or underemployed teachers in Eugene who are working as baristas or bike mechanics as any place on the west coast.
This is probably true, but it still wouldn't hurt for them to put their resumes out there. I wonder if experienced teachers wouldn't have a better chance of getting jobs, then recent graduates.
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