Sanford chief: Shooting death of Miami teen not enough evidence to arrest shooter. (place, work)

[Aimewitue]

Originally Posted by chopchop0

Bingo. That alone could have avoided this entire tragedy from the getgo

Right if Zimmerman stays in his car none of this even happens. So why did Zimmerman get out his car...

[allen2323]

Unfortunately, even in a case as cut and dry as this. Some people will draw staunch racial lines and take sides. The facts of this case speak for itself. The people who are attempting to justify and excuse Zimmerman's behavior that night are the real race baiters here. The fact is the sanford police failed to press charges which prompted national civil rights figures such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to bring this matter to the forefront.

As far as George Zimmerman's self defense claim. George's entire premise is based on Trayvon being a burglar prowling around the neighborhood. And deadly force was needed in self defense against a burglar at night prowling the neighborhood who had attacked him. When in fact the person he shot was a juvenile who was just walking from a nearby store and talking on his cell phone. There was no motive to believe an unprovoked attack took place against Zimmerman. Had George Zimmerman gotten out of his car for any other reason than to chase after or confront Trayvon. Then he might have a believable ground to stand on saying trayvon was unprovoked in attacking him and the shooting was self defense. But the facts are what they are. The shooting didn't occur anywhere near Zimmerman's car. It occurred in an dimly lit backyard of some townhomes. If zimmerman wasn't chasing after trayvon looking for a confrontation what was he doing in the backyard of other residents' townhomes?

Here is a map of the crime scene. http://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/2...erman-path.jpg

You can clearly see that Zimmerman chased after and cut off the victim. The backyard where the shooting took place is nowhere near where George's car was parked at. No one can say with certainty what were george's initial intentions when getting out of the car. It may not have been to fight with or to cause the victim harm. But that sure was the outcome. And had he not been carrying a loaded handgun and chasing after someone at night who he had just called 911 on. This whole thing would have never happened.

[justNancy]

Originally Posted by allen2323

Unfortunately, even in a case as cut and dry as this. Some people will draw staunch racial lines and take sides. The facts of this case speak for itself. The people who are attempting to justify and excuse Zimmerman's behavior that night are the real race baiters here. The fact is the sanford police failed to press charges which prompted national civil rights figures such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to bring this matter to the forefront.

As far as George Zimmerman's self defense claim. George's entire premise is based on Trayvon being a burglar prowling around the neighborhood. And deadly force was needed in self defense against a burglar at night prowling the neighborhood. When in fact the person he shot was a juvenile who was just walking from a nearby store and talking on his cell phone. Had George Zimmerman gotten out of his car for any other reason than to follow or chase after Trayvon. Then he might have a believable ground to stand on saying trayvon was unprovoked in attacking him and the shooting was self defense. But the facts are what they are. The shooting didn't occur anywhere near Zimmerman's car. It occurred in the backyard of some townhomes. If zimmerman wasn't chasing after trayvon looking for a confortation what was he doing in the backyard of other residents' townhomes?

But you are using common sense!

Now we are seeing a police video confirmed by SPD as real, showing Zimmerman walking steadily, nothing to indicate he is injured. Where's the blood? Where is the bandage or bridge stabilizing his badly broken nose?

He still needs to be tried by a jury and get the fair treatment any American citizen deserves. However, I cannot possibly understand how people can now claim he was attacked and beaten.

[justNancy]

Originally Posted by allen2323

Here is a map of the crime scene. [URL]http://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-path.jpg[/URL]

Thank you so much for this map. It makes everything so much clearer. Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher "he's running." When asked in what direction, he answers "the back entrance." So he'd only know that if he was following him. Now that I see where his father was staying, it's obvious the teenager just wanted to get away from him and go home to watch the All-Star game with his friends and family. Very sad.

I want to add that I mentioned in another thread that we don't know how long Zimmerman was following Martin before he made the 911 call. I mean, he could have been watching him (or stalking, depending on how you see it) for a while before calling police.

[Crane's Rooster]

More disturbing news has surfaced that the Chief of Police and Chief of Investigations both personally went to the crime scene. Additionally, that same night the Chief spoke directly to the State Attorney himself. All these actions are unusual and not considered standard operating procedure for even a homocide. Apparently, all involved knew that Zimmerman was the son of a retired judge who lived nearby. It just adds to the idea that there was cover-up involved by local officials.

[justNancy]

Originally Posted by Aimewitue

Right if Zimmerman stays in his car none of this even happens. So why did Zimmerman get out his car...

If you go to the Sanford Police site and download prior 911 calls from Zimmerman, you can see he's done this before. The police released a log of Zimmerman's calls to police dating back several years.

Here's an account from McClatchy:

"In September 2003, Zimmerman called police to complain of a fellow motorist spitting on him. He followed the man until police arrived. But the motorist, Daniel Osmun, told police that Zimmerman was tailgating and he spit his gum out the window "out of frustration" with the young man's erratic driving.

As they pulled up next to each other, the two exchanged words and "Mr. Osmun also said at one point, he thought Mr. Zimmerman was going to attack him," according to a police report. Prosecutors were contacted but no charges were ever filed against either, according to state records."

The man sounds like a loose cannon to me.

[Nick99]

Originally Posted by allen2323

Come on, we've all been in or at least witnessed a serious fist fight. Busted lip, swollen face, and heavy bruising. George Zimmerman did not look like he had been in a serious fist fight at all. Certainly not on the losing end of one. Plain and simple. Sure he may have had some scratches or cuts that may not have been visible in the tape. But overall George looks fine. He does not look like he had been in a life threatening fight.

The question I have is what sort of evidence is there that this was self defense? When George made the 911 call it did not appear that his life was in danger. In fact he states that he was getting out of his car to follow Trayvon. The only reasonable explanation for zimmerman to get out of his car was to follow or possibly confront the victim. Being confronted while walking alone at night would have anyone on the defense. And I don't consider confronting someone at night who you just called 911 on to be rational behavior. Nor something someone who didn't have a loaded handgun would ever do. It sounds like George was looking for trouble and he got. It just turned out that the person who he ended up killing was an unarmed juvenile. Instead of being seen as a hero by his neighbors for stopping a suspected burglar. He killed an unarmed kid who was a visitor and acquaintance of a homeowner.

If somebody who looks like a thug accosts me all alone at night, and unprovoked, and knocks me down, and I have a gun. Sorry, but I'm not waiting for the guy to start pummeling me. I'm shooting the SOB

[annerk]

Originally Posted by Nick99

If somebody who looks like a thug accosts me all alone at night, and unprovoked, and knocks me down, and I have a gun. Sorry, but I'm not waiting for the guy to start pummeling me. I'm shooting the SOB

Unprovoked? He was being stalked by a vigilante when he was doing nothing wrong. Who provoked who here?

[Nick99]

Originally Posted by annerk

My husband is an EMT, no they don't clean up the blood. Not their problem.

I've never heard of a broken nose that didn't bleed all over the place, including onto hands and clothing. My husband seconds that.

Your husband knows all the different types of injuries, broken noses, etc that exist, the whole spectrum of it. Tell you what, I've had my nose broken, and not a drop of blood. I've had my head knocked on a number of hard surfaces, and not a drop of blood. One thing is certain, the guy had grass stains on his back, that tells me he was knocked down. Never heard of anybody falling on their own BACKWARD. Do me a favor, ask your EMT husband if he's ever seen that.

You seem to have an emotional attachment to this case with your heavy language against Zimmerman. Detach yourself from those emotions and you might be able to comment rationally.

[Nick99]

Originally Posted by annerk

Unprovoked? He was being stalked by a vigilante when he was doing nothing wrong. Who provoked who here?

So you're saying if Zimmerman was in fact stalking him (and nobody can even suggest this at this point) that it's OK for Martin to hit him? Stalking is provocation. Well then, hitting is provocation for shooting (the only sure weapon Zimmerman had against this athletic teen who overpowered him).

PS As a neighborhood watch guy, don't you think Zimmerman, in an instinctive gesture of self-preservation, would disclose that he is a neighborhood watch guy and wants to have some words? I think so. And I think an impulsive, hopped up teen might respond to that with defiance and even violence. And that response cost the cocky teen his life.