Orlando (Central Florida) Interstate/Highway System (Miami, Tampa: transporting, moving, transport)

[chopchop0]

Originally Posted by boy3365

Cool history Jwolfer.

It looks like Jax is the one of Florida's major cities without tolls.
They are here to stay.

Jax hasn't had quite the growth of Miami/tampa/orlando either

[jwolfer]

Originally Posted by boy3365

Cool history Jwolfer.

It looks like Jax is the one of Florida's major cities without tolls.
They are here to stay.

we had tolls till 1988, the I-95 bridges over St Johns River and Trout River, JTB(SR 202) expressway to the beaches, Jacksonvilles Beachline. The Florida Turnpike Entrerprise is building First Coast Outer Beltway( SR23) which will be toll road in Duval and Clay, eventually St Johns County. There will also be tolled express lanes on 295 and 95 in the next couple years... so tolls are back in Jax

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by chopchop0

Back to the op point, yes i4 has been neglected for decades until the recent decision to upgrade it with additional tolled lanes.

The growth of Orlando suburbs has been facilitated by the toll roads like the 408,417 and 429 where the funding was lacking otherwise.

Remember the gas tax hasnt been increased in 20+ years

Exactly.

The Orlando metro area has been myopic regarding transportation development and continues today even with the newer additions like the 417 and 429 to be about 20 years behind development in terms of highway planning. If one looks at cities like Miami and to a lesser extent Tampa the void is very apparent in terms of how far behind it is here.

[OptimusPrime69]

Originally Posted by jwolfer

Remember that the interstates were planned in the 1950s, the country was coming out of WWII had lots of money and good credit so there was plenty of money to go around.

Back then Florida was a much smaller state in 1950 there were less than 3 million in the entire state! Now Orlando metro is approaching that size. Orlando was a city of regional importance at the time ( think Ocala, Daytona, Lakeland, Chattanooga). Ask someone who has lived in Orlando before 1965, very different city. Sleepy mid-sized Deep South city and natives had Southern accents, no real reason for tourists to visit, it was the center of citrus and cattle with some aerospace thanks to being near Cape Canaveral.

I-4 connected Tampa to the east coast. The leaders of Orange County and Orlando petitioned to have the Florida's Turnpike turn inland, and the intersection of I-4 and the Turnpike is what caught the attention of Walt Disney, good freeways meeting, less chance of hurricanes and very undeveloped. A book called "The Mouse that ate Orlando" has some interesting history on this.

The tolls are here to stay, not just in Orlando and Florida but all over the country. Jacksonville voted in 1988 to remove tolls and have 1/2 cent sales tax but we are getting toll express lanes on our interstates, and we still pay the tax.

As far as making them interstates. No real reason to at this point but it would make it clearer that 417/429 were bypasses if it was I-204 or I-404. We could get all crazy and make SR 408 into I-104 and the Beachline(SR528) into I-604 or I-995.

At one point interstates could not be built as toll roads, some were grandfathered in like the PA Turnpike or Parts of the NJ Turnpike, Jacksonville's Bridges, in South Florida part of the FL Turnpike was signed as I-95 BTW. Interstates can now be tolled, but the Central Florida Expressway Authority, Florida Turnpike Enterprises, State DOT would have to petition Federal Government to add to the interstate system.

I could go on and on about this subject but I dont want to put anyone into a deep sleep

Actually this history lesson is giving me life. Please continue.

[ETap0687]

Originally Posted by OptimusPrime69

Actually this history lesson is giving me life. Please continue.

Yea a lot of things I didn't know. I'd actually like to know more lol.

[ETap0687]

Originally Posted by Arcenal352

I'd actually much rather they make the 408 a FREE expressway, the way it was originally intended to be, as there is no viable alternative to it to travel East-West through the city.
The 429/417 loop (including the additions along SR46) are fine as tolls IMO.

That's interesting, so 408 was originally not going to be a toll road?

[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by ETap0687

That's interesting, so 408 was originally not going to be a toll road?

IIRC, it was meant to start as a toll simply to fund the construction of the system, and the tolls were to be removed once the project was paid for. I guess after seeing how much they were cashing in on the road they decided to leave them up.

[ETap0687]

^ oh ok, well hopefully after more growth they'll open it up to be free.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way about the roadways here. Love the city but hate the way it's mapped out road highway wise.

[Anna Moose]

Originally Posted by ETap0687

^ oh ok, well hopefully after more growth they'll open it up to be free.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way about the roadways here. Love the city but hate the way it's mapped out road highway wise.

I believe now the concept is 408 can finance Orlando's new highway needs as some of the new toll roads being built are not expected to be monetarily sufficient for quite some time to cover their own financing costs.

[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by Anna Moose

I believe now the concept is 408 can finance Orlando's new highway needs as some of the new toll roads being built are not expected to be monetarily sufficient for quite some time to cover their own financing costs.

This would make sense. I can't imagine that stretch going from 429 to Round Lake in Mt. Dora (out by me) will be very profitable, although it is extremely expensive to build with the state preserve there. I believe the only positive that the state is looking at with this extension is the reduction of traffic along SR46 and 441. In no way will the fairly low volume of traffic using that stretch be enough to pay for it.