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1) Most people who moved here moved from the West Coast and Northeast. It would stupid for them to compare Orlando to Houston, if they didn't move here from Houston. As well as it would be stupid to compare a city they have never lived in to Orlando. You never know reality of a place until you actually live there first hand.
2) Most people who romanticize about other areas tend to focus on the West Coast and Northeast. How many of these people are saying, "Oh how I wish I could live in Cleveland, OH" but you see it all the time, "In California, they have the 5th largest economy in the world, if only I lived there I would be a tech executive instead of working at Hooters."
I agree though that it is more difficult to build wealth from scratch here than some of the areas discussed. However, most of the people here I've met who complain about COL, still live in their own apartment. Most of my friends who earn $100k in California have room mates because they cannot afford to buy a place or accumulate savings with a private apartment. People who romanticize about moving are usually the ones who complain about traffic, which is nothing compared to the areas they often romanticize about.
There is also the desirability factor. People are willing to move to Florida despite lower wages because of the quality of life. When I lived in Australia, I'd meet Brits all the time say, I could be making a lot more money in the UK, but I'd rather enjoy the warm sunny weather, slower pace of life, etc in Australia and make less money.
How many people dream of retiring or living in Akron, OH? However, many people do about Florida and it's hard for people who have only lived here their entire lives to understand why. This is why I think it's great for people to move and experience life elsewhere if they aren't happy career wise or quality of life wise. You only live once, so do something about it (not directed towards you, I'm talking in general). Too many complainers are always full of excuses.
I get that. Personally, I have a "pick where you want to live and do what you need to do to make it work" mentality. So, while I could be making more elsewhere, I am far from scraping to get by here.
I brought up the southern mid-size and major cities because they deserve to be in the comparative mix just as much as SF, Boston, etc. Texas is almost just as much of a "hot place people are moving to" as Florida, throwing it into the "desirability" mix. So, I think it is wise to compare Dallas/Houston to Miami and Charlotte to Orlando/Tampa economically. I also think bringing the southern powerhouse cities into the discussion gets us off of discussions about taxes, which seems to be a big excuse from many of the more politically motivated commenters.
Scott Maxwell, the author of the linked article, thinks that we still focus too much on tourism. But I don't think luring other companies here is the solution. We just have to win that capitalist lottery of successful (non-hospitality/tourism) companies starting here, growing here, and staying here. My only exception would be getting more corporate jobs from companies that make a TON of money from Florida but are headquartered elsewhere, like Disney, Universal, the hotel chains, AirBnB!!!!!, etc. Chewy is a win for South Florida, so that's a start. The whole current state government strategy of begging companies to move here from the west or northeast is not my cup of tea. Cleveland didn't become Cleveland by luring Goodyear, Progressive Insurance, Sherwin-Williams, Smucker from other states. Those companies started there. Florida's cities are still pretty "young" compared to the other national powerhouses, so maybe our moment is still on its way lol.
I get that. Personally, I have a "pick where you want to live and do what you need to do to make it work" mentality. So, while I could be making more elsewhere, I am far from scraping to get by here.
I brought up the southern mid-size and major cities because they deserve to be in the comparative mix just as much as SF, Boston, etc. Texas is almost just as much of a "hot place people are moving to" as Florida, throwing it into the "desirability" mix. So, I think it is wise to compare Dallas/Houston to Miami and Charlotte to Orlando/Tampa economically. I also think bringing the southern powerhouse cities into the discussion gets us off of discussions about taxes, which seems to be a big excuse from many of the more politically motivated commenters.
Scott Maxwell, the author of the linked article, thinks that we still focus too much on tourism. But I don't think luring other companies here is the solution. We just have to win that capitalist lottery of successful (non-hospitality/tourism) companies starting here, growing here, and staying here. My only exception would be getting more corporate jobs from companies that make a TON of money from Florida but are headquartered elsewhere, like Disney, Universal, the hotel chains, AirBnB!!!!!, etc. Chewy is a win for South Florida, so that's a start. The whole current state government strategy of begging companies to move here from the west or northeast is not my cup of tea. Cleveland didn't become Cleveland by luring Goodyear, Progressive Insurance, Sherwin-Williams, Smucker from other states. Those companies started there. Florida's cities are still pretty "young" compared to the other national powerhouses, so maybe our moment is still on its way lol.
Yeah, I agree with you there is much more than just the West Coast and Northeast. Texas has a lot of appeal as well and is winning the battle the jobs market battle. I think there are a lot of similarities between Florida and Texas, but ultimately, Texas has been the winner thus far because of its population. It's hard for Florida because our graduates move to other states to create their careers, so businesses needing highly skilled employees is limited here. If there were more of these businesses here, more graduates would stay here. But it's sort of like what comes first, so it will be a slow process I believe, but could eventually happen. The main reason why companies are staying in California for example is because of the VC available in the area and the highly skilled employee base.
"In California, they have the 5th largest economy in the world, if only I lived there I would be a tech executive instead of working at Hooters."
Quote:
There is also the desirability factor. People are willing to move to Florida despite lower wages because of the quality of life. When I lived in Australia, I'd meet Brits all the time say, I could be making a lot more money in the UK, but I'd rather enjoy the warm sunny weather, slower pace of life, etc in Australia and make less money.
Struth, mate. It was expensive as in Brizzy but it wasn't that hard to make a go of it and you couldn't beat the QOL. And that's a big part of the problem here in terms of wages and the cost of rent - how fast people keep moving here.
Additionally, as I've mentioned several times on these COL/wage threads, people tend to only compare FL with the Northeast and the West Coast. That convenient when trying to score political points. But when you're not, you have to throw in Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville, etc into the mix. These cities have similar COL to the big Florida metros with Miami likely exceeding all of them. Austin may be the one anomaly in the southern states. Including those cities causes the usual arguments of taxes, state-level political leanings, etc. to go out the window.
Personally, I think the lower than average wages regardless of industry are still predicated on the "low cost of living" and "low tax" reputation. That's a reputation that we no longer have as living expenses have creeped up over the years.
I agree that things could be better, should be better, but I also understand how complicated it is. And looking at the graph, when you consider the rate of growth, the only cities in that league are Raleigh, Austin, and Bend - all much smaller cities. Not that they're not cool places but I have no interest in living in any of them.
The only cities on or near the line of affordability that I have any interest in personally are Atlanta, Philly, and Chicago. I lived in Philly for a long time. I moved here for a reason. There's a lot of perks to living here you just won't find in Charlotte, Columbus, or Nashville. Columbus isn't that much smaller than Orlando and for a city that size has a really big, downtown but the airport has 5 gates. No joke. People pay more for those things.
I'm not saying, "everything is fine." I'm saying that it's a known problem that people with a lot of influence are working on. I'm also saying that attracting an outsized portion of high paying jobs will not solve housing affordability. People in Miami are already complaining about it. The only thing that fixes that is a vacancy rate sustained at or above 5%. That's how Houston does it. That and a lot of oil, gas, and rockets. What we need is more housing - specifically more apartments and townhomes and major investments in public transit. It's great that we're ahead of Nashville but we're behind cities like Charlotte and way behind Portland and even much smaller SLC.
When Brightline opens and especially when Sunrail connects to it and the airport and especially if Sunrail negotiates access to Disney Springs this place will forever change and people will be lamenting these as the good old days.
I agree that things could be better, should be better, but I also understand how complicated it is. And looking at the graph, when you consider the rate of growth, the only cities in that league are Raleigh, Austin, and Bend - all much smaller cities. Not that they're not cool places but I have no interest in living in any of them.
The only cities on or near the line of affordability that I have any interest in personally are Atlanta, Philly, and Chicago. I lived in Philly for a long time. I moved here for a reason. There's a lot of perks to living here you just won't find in Charlotte, Columbus, or Nashville. Columbus isn't that much smaller than Orlando and for a city that size has a really big, downtown but the airport has 5 gates. No joke. People pay more for those things.
I'm not saying, "everything is fine." I'm saying that it's a known problem that people with a lot of influence are working on. I'm also saying that attracting an outsized portion of high paying jobs will not solve housing affordability. People in Miami are already complaining about it. The only thing that fixes that is a vacancy rate sustained at or above 5%. That's how Houston does it. That and a lot of oil, gas, and rockets. What we need is more housing - specifically more apartments and townhomes and major investments in public transit. It's great that we're ahead of Nashville but we're behind cities like Charlotte and way behind Portland and even much smaller SLC.
When Brightline opens and especially when Sunrail connects to it and the airport and especially if Sunrail negotiates access to Disney Springs this place will forever change and people will be lamenting these as the good old days.
Attracting jobs that pay a living wage is the primary fix to Orlando's issue if you've been paying any attention. Orlando/Orange County spends in the neighborhood of 20 Million dollars on tourism advertising annually which has finally come home to roost as foolishness versus what other more progressive cities in the Southeast have done to entice a diversified economic base with higher-paying jobs. An in-state example is Jacksonville which flies below the radar from a tourism aspect given it's the northern most wide stretch of beaches much closer than another few hours south to more widely known destinations in FL. Instead the city has focused on it's strength of location for regional operations for major corporations plus logistics/transporation due to their heavily infested in Port of Jacksonville, along with destination healthcare facilities like the Mayo Clinic and UF Shands that could very easily have wound up in Orlando with any kind of effort many years ago. More housing in the end solves nothing given once the market has achieved a certain dollar value it's not going to miraculously fall back into affordability because there's more availability.
1) Most people who moved here moved from the West Coast and Northeast. It would stupid for them to compare Orlando to Houston, if they didn't move here from Houston. As well as it would be stupid to compare a city they have never lived in to Orlando. You never know reality of a place until you actually live there first hand.
2) Most people who romanticize about other areas tend to focus on the West Coast and Northeast. How many of these people are saying, "Oh how I wish I could live in Cleveland, OH" but you see it all the time, "In California, they have the 5th largest economy in the world, if only I lived there I would be a tech executive instead of working at Hooters."
I agree though that it is more difficult to build wealth from scratch here than some of the areas discussed. However, most of the people here I've met who complain about COL, still live in their own apartment. Most of my friends who earn $100k in California have room mates because they cannot afford to buy a place or accumulate savings with a private apartment. People who romanticize about moving are usually the ones who complain about traffic, which is nothing compared to the areas they often romanticize about.
There is also the desirability factor. People are willing to move to Florida despite lower wages because of the quality of life. When I lived in Australia, I'd meet Brits all the time say, I could be making a lot more money in the UK, but I'd rather enjoy the warm sunny weather, slower pace of life, etc in Australia and make less money.
How many people dream of retiring or living in Akron, OH? However, many people do about Florida and it's hard for people who have only lived here their entire lives to understand why. This is why I think it's great for people to move and experience life elsewhere if they aren't happy career wise or quality of life wise. You only live once, so do something about it (not directed towards you, I'm talking in general). Too many complainers are always full of excuses.
I agree though that it is more difficult to build wealth from scratch here than some of the areas discussed.
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It's harder to BS your way through Florida than it is in the northeast. If people in Florida are doing well you typically know exactly what their profession is. In NY, for example, just a lot of funny money. Plus a bloated state/city workforce pulling in endless OT.
The poster saying you cant build wealth in FL is perposterous.
It's harder to BS your way through Florida than it is in the northeast. If people in Florida are doing well you typically know exactly what their profession is. In NY, for example, just a lot of funny money. Plus a bloated state/city workforce pulling in endless OT.
The poster saying you cant build wealth in FL is perposterous.
Florida is also the state with the most fraud cases...by a mile... So there is a ton of BS-ing here.
I don't think anyone said that it is impossible to build wealth here. It's possible to build wealth anywhere if you manage the money you are making well. It's just that, if taking the traditional job route, you may have an easier time somewhere else.
One export we do seem to have is group of newer restaurants that are looking to expand beyond Orlando and even the state. Granted, that's spreading low wage jobs around, but if these companies grow to be American household names in 10-15 years, metro Orlando will hopefully still house their headquarters with plenty of corporate jobs.
I don't think anyone said that it is impossible to build wealth here. It's possible to build wealth anywhere if you manage the money you are making well. It's just that, if taking the traditional job route, you may have an easier time somewhere else.
I could be wrong but getting on disability from a public job in say NY is a lot easier than bilking the Florida gvt. I’d venture to guess a lot of fraud cases are from people coming from out of state on their dole and living in low COL Florida.
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