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We worked on Peugeot's from the 1970's through the late 1980's. The later diesel cars, especially the turbo'd motor, were strong performers with excellent fuel economy. I had several customers that were getting high 40 mpg numbers in 505tD's, and I had a 1983 504D wagon which ran a consistent 38 mpg driving along the front range mountains of Colorado. It took but a little adjusting on the injection pumps to get the cars to run cleanly, and start/run properly for the altitude. The XD2 diesel motors would readily start in cold temps at high altitude that would keep MB diesels from starting unless plugged in to a block heater for many hours ... which really helped us when we'd go skiing for a weekend and not be able to plug the car in at the place we were staying.
The gasoline powered cars were also smooth, economical, and a pleasure to drive, with the exception of the V-6 604's that were very problematic.
Unfortunately, all of the cars were plagued with niggling problems that made them unsuitable for most customers. While basically solid and durable in major structural components, certain plastic items would routinely fail that would be a major inconvenience ... such as central locking units in the driver's door that wouldn't allow you to exit the car from the left front, to heater boxes that simply fell apart. They had marginal capacity cooling systems that could toast a motor (or, at least the cylinder head) before you had a chance to react and shut the motor off on a hot day with a loaded car headed to the mountains at freeway speeds. The heads were fragile and very susceptible to warping at the slightest overheat condition.
I've driven USA and Euro market cars, and they were consistently among the most comfortable cars I've ever driven in that era, while retaining good handling and braking characteristics. The motors were easy to work on, and the bottom ends were incredibly stout for a 1/2 million miles. But that worked against other factor items like the rear shifter seal on the transmissions, which would fail and leave a steady trickle of gear lube on the ground where you parked ... and required replacing the entire back casing of the transmission because the shifter linkage was a welded up assembly and not removable to service the seal.
The biggest downfall was the very poor USA dealer support network, with limited parts availability for cars that were out of service. Virtually everything except routine service parts needed to come out of NJ's warehouse, so paying extra freight was customary at the dealership. Alternatively, we had a few eastern USA aftermarket suppliers who carried service and major items, but again ... we had to pay freight charges to get the parts, along with the delay in getting the items.
Unless you wanted to tinker with your car all the time and maintain it, the Peugeots simply didn't hold up in USA service. For those of us who could/would, I could frequently find folks that had paid high teens for a new diesel Peugeot that would gladly sell it for $500-800 after a couple of years of headaches with it ... which was more than they could get on trade-in on another vehicle. These cars had virtually no resale value except to a dedicated Peugeot enthusiast who would put up with the deficiencies and otherwise enjoyed the car.
My boys all had Peugeot diesels among their first cars, and they certainly tried to run them hard enough and abuse them to where they'd break and I'd get them into something else. For the most part, the Peugeot's were pretty tough and rugged cars ... except for the niggling details that would make the cars unusable from time to time. We put a lot of miles on them at very low cost ... keeping in mind that I did all the work and upkeep myself and bought the parts wholesale. For whatever reason, the cars were very frugal with routine wear items, like tires, belts, brake pads, etc.; I've had brake pads last 75,000 miles on several cars.
I wouldn't recommend these cars to someone who wasn't an enthusiast owner in the USA unless Peugeot has really improved the marginal components in the new models, and has an adequate parts/dealer service network at reasonable cost.
I live in Germany part time and they produce some great small cars that are very popular there.Problem is dollar has lost half its value under Pres. Cheney and long term
may well be worth as little as 25cents against the euro as the US drowns in its debt.
Renault is a much better position with its Mexican factories,they sell a lot in Latin America.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit
The biggest downfall was the very poor USA dealer support network, with limited parts availability for cars that were out of service. Virtually everything except routine service parts needed to come out of NJ's warehouse, so paying extra freight was customary at the dealership. Alternatively, we had a few eastern USA aftermarket suppliers who carried service and major items, but again ... we had to pay freight charges to get the parts, along with the delay in getting the items.
This is simply not true, Peugeot's fill rate was among the highest in the industry. I forget the exact cost but the charge to a dealer for even overnight shipping was extremely reasonable, IF anyone was paying excessive shipping charges it was because of and to the dealer.
This is simply not true, Peugeot's fill rate was among the highest in the industry. I forget the exact cost but the charge to a dealer for even overnight shipping was extremely reasonable, IF anyone was paying excessive shipping charges it was because of and to the dealer.
I beg to differ, with over 20 years of my retail service shop experience trying to keep these cars on the road for my clientele ... parts were always a nightmare to obtain from the Denver (L J Dreiling Motors on Alameda Ave) dealership. In the later years, I even had better parts 'fiche and books then they did for the models I was working on, some was aftermarket specialty supply houses reprints or breakdowns.
Their "claimed" practice was to only place standard parts orders with Peugeot NA when they had a "minimum" dealer order to send out, which could be some number of days delay before the order would be placed; otherwise, you had to pay "extra handling" and "freight" charges for a "special order" which amounted to a substantial premium price for an item to be brought in next day or two day service for a customer's car that was out of service.
I had many times where it was simply more cost effective to place my parts orders with other dealerships around the country that had the part I needed on the shelf. Even with my time to locate the part on a dealer's shelf and long distance phone charges, it could work out to a substantial time and money savings for me and my customer.
Certain items were an absolute screw job from Peugeot, too. For example, a bare diesel cylinder head was only 25% of the cost in the aftermarket compared to the dealer price with my whopping 15% courtesy in the trade pro discount. The heads were from the OE manufacturer, same same same as the dealer supplied item. Similarly, front strut inserts could be had in the aftermarket, shipped in faster for less money, for a fraction of the Peugeot dealer price. Water pumps, thermostats, radiators, rebuilt starters/alternators, clutches, engine overhaul kits, injectors, glow plugs .... all OE and much less expensive elsewhere, and readily available.
Considering that I purchased my shop from the gentleman who had previously been Dreiling's service manager/lead Peugeot tech for quite a few years before he went out on his own and he furnished me with his lists of suppliers and clients ... It wasn't just my experience, it was the multi-year experience of problems with Peugeot parts prices/supply from a man who was well acquainted with the system for many years before me.
I never questioned the parts "fill rate", but the pricing and local availability were the big issues, especially for my clients.
In view of the fact that Peugeot NA was the franchisor, it was under their responsibility to control the damage caused to their marque by outrageous dealer behavior. You may assert, Burdell, that it was the dealer causing the damage in the parts chain, but I would assert that Peugeot NA had the responsibility to keep their dealer network in line or replace them. I'm not saying they had to tell the dealer what their price points or mark-ups would have to be, but excessive costs and punitive extra fees passed on to the customer was certainly not in the best interests of Peugeot NA or the dealers. There was a very suspect arrogant attitude to be found in all of these people ... which, I believe, resulted in the demise of an otherwise quality product in the USA market.
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