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First let me apologize for the length of this thread but I have many questions and anyone who could offer in depth insight/opinions/advice would be doing me a great service... it would be appreciated very very much.
Within the next few weeks we will find out from my husbands employer if we're approved for relocation to Canada from the US, I am trying to be as prepared as possible if this becomes a reality to make the process less stressful.
Quick Background:
-I am American and speak zero french but I am willing and hoping to learn it whether we choose ontario side or quebec side
-Husband is French Canadian, from Gatineau and is fluent in both french and english
-3 year old son, 1 year old daughter
-Husbands family lives in Gatineau, we would like to be relatively close to them
-I love downtown ottawa and foresee myself spending a lot of time there, relatively close proximity to downtown is important to me
-I am a stay at home mom, no commute time to consider, no future job possibility to consider when making this decision
-Husband travels by plane for majority of his business in Canada and US and will use YOW airport
Gatineau:
-Having spent time in Gatineau visiting family members I enjoy how accessible to Ottawa it is (If we are visiting family members homes we are in Gatineau but if we go out to eat, mall, museums, festivals etc its usually in Ottawa, I also enjoy going to Whole Foods and Landsdowne Park, I come from an area where driving 20 minutes to get somewhere is common so I don't mind driving a bit but my area also comes with little to no traffic and I know Ottawa may be a concern for traffic at certain times).
-Should I let the language deter me from choosing to live on the Quebec side? (We like the Cote d'Azur neighborhood.)
Ontario side:
-I'm not sure there's a place for us there? It seems all the ottawa suburbs are quite far from Gatineau and like Gatineau is actually closer to Ottawa than the Ottawa suburbs?
---Ex- I found gorgeous homes in Manotick but it seems so far from downtown and even further from family in Gatineau
---Ex- I found a gorgeous home in Westboro within walking distance to many things and maybe 20 min from where our family in Gatineau lives so that doesn't seem too bad, however; I fear we would be making a mistake living somewhere like that where backyards are extremely small or non-existent. I fear we would long for a backyard with a pool for the kids.
Language (issue or non-issue?):
-I see the benefits to being bilingual and having the kids be bilingual, actually, I cannot see any downsides to speaking more than one language.
-I don't want my lack of french to prohibit me from being fully involved in my children's education, activities, sports etc.
-I worry I won't be able to communicate with their teachers or help them with their homework should they go to a french school.
-The best language learning program that's marketed to us in the US is a computer program called Rosetta Stone, I know French from France varies from Quebecois, so would learning using this program not help me?
-Our 3 year old can sing along to a few French songs and say a few things like Bonne nuit and Jetaime... I would say he knows little to no French, I don't want him to end up behind or have a hard time socially. He goes to a preschool here where we live in the US 2-3 days a week for 2.5 hours each day, I assume it would be wise to send him to something similar in Canada that's bilingual until he reaches kindergarten age at which time I would hope he would be up to speed in French and able to attend school in full French if we lived on the Quebec side or would it be best to send him to a bilingual school or choose ontario for this reason and go all english? ----What options exist for us?
-Good education for the kids is highly important to me, I want them to be prepared and capable of going on to a university after high school and have the option of either Canadian or American university.
-Our soon to be 1 year old is still quite young so I imagine she wouldn't encounter language difficulties if we moved to Quebec instead of Ontario. Being a stay at home mom, I don't need her to go to daycare and haven't sent the kids to daycare but I would think maybe she should go to daycare part time if we moved there to develop her french?
School options and questions:
-I'm not totally aware of how the education system works there and if it does vary from the system I am aware of in the US or how it varies
-In the US we have national school rankings so it is quite easy to make a decision on a school public vs private according to where you live and how good the school is, statistically speaking, not just by parents saying "oh yes it's the best school..."
-I found Fraser Institute school rankings but see they don't rank the elementary schools in Quebec, why? Is there another ranking system for elementary schools in Quebec I haven't found?
-I'm prepared to send the kids to private school if necessary, because of it being a better school or because of language etc, whatever is best and necessary is what I will follow, however; I don't believe that private is ALWAYS better or that there aren't great public schools.
-I was told that the elementary school if we chose to live in the Cote d'Azur neighborhood in Gatineau would be Ecole Du Vallon (excuse any possible french misspellings please). Is this a good school, how do you know and in comparison to what? What private elementary schools are nearby and worth considering over this school?
-I saw the Gatineau public high school for this neighborhood on the Fraser ranking and saw it's ranked quite low and not a great school but found the private high school College Saint Alexandre near the neighborhood is ranked very high.
-What elementary/primary school do kids going to College Saint Alexandre usually come from?
-Lycee Claudel in Ottawa- A family members 3 children attended this school and highly recommend it. I like that it is 1 school from pre-k all the way to high school graduation for consistency but do any kids living in Gatineau go to this school, is it too far, would getting the kids there be a nightmare? Is this school so much better that the distance would be worth sending them there even if we live in Gatineau or should we choose to live in Ontario for a school like this?
If there's anything I missed or am not realizing, please ask or let me know.
THANK YOU/MERCI in advance for your response!
-Having spent time in Gatineau visiting family members I enjoy how accessible to Ottawa it is (If we are visiting family members homes we are in Gatineau but if we go out to eat, mall, museums, festivals etc its usually in Ottawa, I also enjoy going to Whole Foods and Landsdowne Park, I come from an area where driving 20 minutes to get somewhere is common so I don't mind driving a bit but my area also comes with little to no traffic and I know Ottawa may be a concern for traffic at certain times).
-Should I let the language deter me from choosing to live on the Quebec side? (We like the Cote d'Azur neighborhood.)
Côte-D'Azur is one of the nicer neighbourhoods in Gatineau. There is traffic going to and from Ottawa there during the rush hour but outside of those specific times you can be in downtown Ottawa in barely 10 minutes. Which is much quicker than most Ottawa suburbs and even certain parts of central Ottawa.
As for the language issue, there are a number of implications involved. It all depends on the person (as in you). Some people don't care and can get by fairly easily. The majority of service staff you will encounter in Gatineau will be able to speak English to some degree. In some cases it will native speaker level, in other cases very broken English but you can muddle through with them. That said, initial contact is almost always in French and some people are not comfortable with demanding people make a language switch just for them (into their second language) with virtually every single interaction of their daily lives. Another thing is that while there is some bilingual signage and such, not nearly everything is bilingual. For example, I am dealing with my natural gas provider on a maintenance issue right now. You have the press 9 option for English on the phone but in many cases it leads to a voice mail that's only in French, so you may have no idea what it means. (Though often the person on the line can speak English when you get to talk to them.)
Or like signs on the highway for road work that say: DEUX VOIES DE GAUCHE FERMÉES, GARDEZ LA DROITE / PRENDRE PROCHAINE SORTIE POUR ACCES A-50 or something like that. I suppose that after living here a while you figure things out.
So it all depends on your personal comfort level with living in what is truly a foreign language place, in spite of the high level of potential functionality in English - when it's absolutely required.
Personally, I like that kind of challenge. But not everyone does.
-I'm not sure there's a place for us there? It seems all the ottawa suburbs are quite far from Gatineau and like Gatineau is actually closer to Ottawa than the Ottawa suburbs?
---Ex- I found gorgeous homes in Manotick but it seems so far from downtown and even further from family in Gatineau
---Ex- I found a gorgeous home in Westboro within walking distance to many things and maybe 20 min from where our family in Gatineau lives so that doesn't seem too bad, however; I fear we would be making a mistake living somewhere like that where backyards are extremely small or non-existent. I fear we would long for a backyard with a pool for the kids.
The city of Ottawa doesn't have a north end. The central part of the city abuts Gatineau. So yeah, Gatineau is closer to downtown Ottawa than much of the city of Ottawa itself.
The bigger new Ottawa suburbs like Orleans, Kanata and Barrhaven are all 20-25 km from downtown Ottawa. Most suburban areas of Gatineau are more like 10-15 km away. Some are even closer than that.
Manotick is very nice it is true but as you say it's some distance from Gatineau and also from downtown Ottawa and traffic can be bad. Although it is very close to to the airport.
Traffic during off-peak times (midday, evenings and weekends) is also generally worse in Ottawa than it is in Gatineau. Zooming across the city or into downtown from a suburban location isn't always an easy 10-15 minute drive like the distance or GPS mapping might lead you to believe. In Gatineau, for the most part, it still is.
Westboro is an "in" part of central Ottawa at the moment. It has nice older homes and has a high walkability score to shops, restaurants and other stuff. Of course since you're in the inner city you have to sacrifice yard space and you'll still pay a hefty price for your house. (Compared to Ottawa suburbs and Gatineau of course).
-I see the benefits to being bilingual and having the kids be bilingual, actually, I cannot see any downsides to speaking more than one language.
-I don't want my lack of french to prohibit me from being fully involved in my children's education, activities, sports etc.
-I worry I won't be able to communicate with their teachers or help them with their homework should they go to a french school.
This may be challenging.
When comes to school, on the Quebec side all communications from a French school will be in French. If you go to a picnic the teachers and everyone will be talking in French. Obviously many parents will know English and will speak it with you when you are involved in the conversation. But no one will address the group in English (or even in French and English) just because you're there.
Same goes for activities, and while there may be clubs and associations that are fairly bilingual, it's really difficult to have bilingual communications across the board. When someone quickly posts on Facebook or an email that a practice has been cancelled or moved to another location, it's likely to be in French.
In Quebec elementary schools note that English class is taught by a "specialist". Which means that teacher only does English. Similar to a music or gym teacher. Which means that the main teacher your kid has doesn't need to know English. Of course, some of them might but it's no guarantee. So yeah, you may find yourself in a parent-teacher meeting unable to communicate.
Not to mention all of the homework that is very predominantly in French (well, everything except for English class): the French language itself, science, math, history, etc.
-The best language learning program that's marketed to us in the US is a computer program called Rosetta Stone, I know French from France varies from Quebecois, so would learning using this program not help me?
If you're truly starting from the bottom level it won't hurt. In the first stages of learning a language you're not going to be trying to eavesdrop on teenagers speaking in slang on the bus, or figuring out a stand-up comedy routine.
It's going to be about reading signs and other written materials, and conducting basic, simple everyday transactions.
Besides, most everyone in Quebec can understand the expressions from European French that are different from ours...
-Our 3 year old can sing along to a few French songs and say a few things like Bonne nuit and Jetaime... I would say he knows little to no French, I don't want him to end up behind or have a hard time socially. He goes to a preschool here where we live in the US 2-3 days a week for 2.5 hours each day, I assume it would be wise to send him to something similar in Canada that's bilingual until he reaches kindergarten age at which time I would hope he would be up to speed in French and able to attend school in full French if we lived on the Quebec side or would it be best to send him to a bilingual school or choose ontario for this reason and go all english? ----What options exist for us?
-Good education for the kids is highly important to me, I want them to be prepared and capable of going on to a university after high school and have the option of either Canadian or American university.
-Our soon to be 1 year old is still quite young so I imagine she wouldn't encounter language difficulties if we moved to Quebec instead of Ontario. Being a stay at home mom, I don't need her to go to daycare and haven't sent the kids to daycare but I would think maybe she should go to daycare part time if we moved there to develop her french?
3 years old is pretty young. Young enough to pick up a new language fairly quickly. I wouldn't worry about having a hard time socially as daycares in particular are filled with kids who speak a multitude of languages. One of the goals of the daycares is to get kids on the same footing linguistically before they start school.
IMO elementary schools in Quebec are every bit as good as those on the Ontario side. I'd say the same for high school education as well with a few caveats that I will explain in another post.
School options and questions:
-I'm not totally aware of how the education system works there and if it does vary from the system I am aware of in the US or how it varies
The school system in Canada is of course different from the U.S.
Ontario's would be more similar to that of the U.S., though not identical.
Quebec's is a bit more different, though not completely alien to the U.S. either.
Note that there are French language public schools in Ottawa as well. They operate much the same as schools in Quebec but there is a greater penetration of English in the school environment (not by design, but by virtue of the fact they are in Ontario.) You're more likely to have your kids' teacher know English in an Ottawa French school - in fact, it's almost a certainty. You'll have more banter and general use of English during activities as well. Even though stuff will still be primarily in French.
-In the US we have national school rankings so it is quite easy to make a decision on a school public vs private according to where you live and how good the school is, statistically speaking, not just by parents saying "oh yes it's the best school..."
-I found Fraser Institute school rankings but see they don't rank the elementary schools in Quebec, why? Is there another ranking system for elementary schools in Quebec I haven't found?
Yeah, the only ranking for elementary schools in Quebec is a socio-economic ranking where you can see if kids come from poorer or richer backgrounds. It's only somewhat useful as it's pretty obvious just by looking at the neighbourhood what kind of families the kids will come from.
There is very little skimming to private schools at the elementary level in Quebec so all of the kids (strong or weak) are in the same schools until Grade 6.
-I saw the Gatineau public high school for this neighborhood on the Fraser ranking and saw it's ranked quite low and not a great school but found the private high school College Saint Alexandre near the neighborhood is ranked very high.
That school would be L'Érablière. It's an OK school and has an enriched computer science program for some kids.
It's in an affluent area but one reason it is ranked poorly is because of the skimming by private schools and other enriched programs like international baccalaureate, etc.
This phenomenon often leaves weaker students over-represented in the regular programs of public schools.
-What elementary/primary school do kids going to College Saint Alexandre usually come from?
The two best high schools in Gatineau are both private: Collège St-Joseph (girls only) in Hull and Collège St-Alexandre in Gatineau.
Kids at those two schools come from all over the Outaouais region and some from Ottawa even.
You get admitted based on your report card and an admission exam.
Tuition for these collèges is about 3000 Canadian dollars a year.
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