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But snobbery and rudeness is NOT a reflection of social class....I know people who have what would generally be referred to as a "high" social standing (higher than mine for sure LOL) but they have better manners than to make others uncomfortable and certainly not at the expense of their own children! Also, many very educated people don't start out at Ivy League (or often even flagship state universities) right out of high school (as you mentioned). Class is reflected in how you treat others.
I only used 'social class' because her specific insults all involve education and wealth, two of the main factors in defining social class.
Let me clarify.
When I say social class problem:
I'm not talking about the way she's treating her children as being social class issue.
I'm talking about the way she's treating her less educated friend as being a social class issue. (That would be me, btw. )
She's puttin' on airs. LOL
Education alone doesn't propel someone into higher social class. You gotta have the money or the power to go with the education.
(Or come from old money, but that's not a relevant factor in my friend's situation.)
what I meant is that I think it is ok to have standards for yourself and your kids, but it is impolite to discuss them with people who have vastly different standards. For example, I expect my kids to go to college. Really, any 4 year college will do IMO. If I have a friend who didn't go to college at all, or who's kids had no hope of going to college, I wouldn't talk about it with that friend. I mean it is possible to be friends with someone of a different "social class" w/o it being a big problem. Unfortunately your friend has made it a problem.
It sounds to me like she's living in la-la land. Her perception of the world is twisted. She has this ideal, this standard, that she thinks "the beautiful people" are "supposed" to live up to. She's pretending that she agrees with it, because she thinks if she pretends hard enough, she'll live up to it, and be one of the beautiful people too.
It's like teenagers who think that buying the same brand jeans that a pop-star buys, will turn them into a pop-star too. Or bald guy who thinks that the girls will love him if only he find the right hairpiece.
They refuse to accept that they're not popstars, because they don't have the talent and the resources to become popstars, and the bald guy isn't getting the love, because he's not loveable - not because he's lacking hair.
Your friend thinks if she pretends hard enough that ivy league schools and all the trappings of the *facade* of wealth are what makes people happy, then she'll be happy when she has all that. What she's not noticing, is that the pretense is exactly what's keeping her from being happy. If she'd just stop pretending so hard, and start enjoying what she HAS, she won't be so miserable that she has to insult anything or anyone, in order to build herself up to unrealistic proportions.
But snobbery and rudeness is NOT a reflection of social class....I know people who have what would generally be referred to as a "high" social standing (higher than mine for sure LOL) but they have better manners than to make others uncomfortable and certainly not at the expense of their own children!
I agree. I have a few dear friends who truly are in higher social class and they are very down to earth people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom
Class is reflected in how you treat others.
Class, yes. Not social class. Social class isn't determined by how people treat each other. Wish it did. LOL That was probably your point though.
The reason I said "social class problem" is that she's TREATING me like I'm in a lower social class than her.
I honestly do not think we technically are. Education alone doesn't define social class. It's not like I'm uneducated. They're just VERY educated.
Our financial situations are very extreme though. But I have no illusions that I'm in the upper class. I'm not. She's the one with the illusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom
Also, many very educated people don't start out at Ivy League (or often even flagship state universities) right out of high school.
I tried telling her that. They could get into a better university based on how they do the first two years and later go fora masters anywhere they want if they do well with their bachelors.
They love thier parents. They're really happy kids.
I think this is a new development in the children's lives because they are in high school AND the financial situation has turned too dire to change before they are done with college.
We thought my cousins loved their parents too until that simliar sort of attitude drove them away after college....you never really can tell a families true dynamics.
Class, yes. Not social class. Social class isn't determined by how people treat each other. Wish it did. LOL ...
Yes...but it's also not really determined by education either....look at Paris Hilton......high school dropout but of a higher social class (several generations of serious money.....smarts? not so much).
My parents had the same mentality, despite not having gone to college themselves. That in this day and age, if I don't go to Harvard, I may as well be flipping burgers.
Hopefully her children will come to realize that there is more to life than what college you can go to, and that there is a lot of middle ground between being an Ivy League graduate and being a drug dealer.
Sometimes we think we know people and then there comes the time when we realize there is nothing in common beyond the coffee and danish.
But when you realize the respect is not there and won't ever be there, maybe it is time to cut the strings. Sometimes the words have been spoken and too many words have been spoken and they were all truthful words and there is no return to the past relationship. The only thing that would help this relationship is for one of you to come over to the other persons thinking.
You realize now that she thinks you are beneath her and to be true friends you have to meet on a level playing field or one will always have to constantly cater to the other one, namely you to her. Do you want this relationship enough to do that?
It is time to ask yourself, "Am I better off being her friend or would I be better off not having her as friend." To be speaking like this, she has evidently made this decision already.
what I meant is that I think it is ok to have standards for yourself and your kids, but it is impolite to discuss them with people who have vastly different standards. For example, I expect my kids to go to college. Really, any 4 year college will do IMO. If I have a friend who didn't go to college at all, or who's kids had no hope of going to college, I wouldn't talk about it with that friend. I mean it is possible to be friends with someone of a different "social class" w/o it being a big problem. Unfortunately your friend has made it a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN
Sometimes we think we know people and then there comes the time when we realize there is nothing in common beyond the coffee and danish.
But when you realize the respect is not there and won't ever be there, maybe it is time to cut the strings. Sometimes the words have been spoken and too many words have been spoken and they were all truthful words and there is no return to the past relationship. The only thing that would help this relationship is for one of you to come over to the other persons thinking.
You realize now that she thinks you are beneath her and to be true friends you have to meet on a level playing field or one will always have to constantly cater to the other one, namely you to her. Do you want this relationship enough to do that?
It is time to ask yourself, "Am I better off being her friend or would I be better off not having her as friend." To be speaking like this, she has evidently made this decision already.
These two....
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