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Finster - I was always in the burbs....There are plusses and minuses to both. I don't know that one is inherently "better" than the other. And schools....as long as you have a basically good school it will be fine. People seem to think a school's rating really counts for much. I personally subscribe to the belief that the "rating" has a lot more to do with the fact that "good" schools are often in affluent areas - and why are they "affluent" areas? Because the people who live there tend to be well educated. Well educated parents have a lot to do with high scoring children....
Finster - I was always in the burbs....There are plusses and minuses to both. I don't know that one is inherently "better" than the other. And schools....as long as you have a basically good school it will be fine. People seem to think a school's rating really counts for much. I personally subscribe to the belief that the "rating" has a lot more to do with the fact that "good" schools are often in affluent areas - and why are they "affluent" areas? Because the people who live there tend to be well educated. Well educated parents have a lot to do with high scoring children....
Yes, I see what you mean. Being completely unfamiliar with the US school system, the whole thing's a bit of a minefield for me. I'm willing to take a shot with a less highly rated school that's well reviewed from the parents and has a program of things we think are important, like including arts and music, and that has children from all walks of life.
Sad news... just heard Mike Starr died. Seemed like he was doing well, too.
Yes, I see what you mean. Being completely unfamiliar with the US school system, the whole thing's a bit of a minefield for me. I'm willing to take a shot with a less highly rated school that's well reviewed from the parents and has a program of things we think are important, like including arts and music, and that has children from all walks of life.
The US school system is foreign to me too. Apart from the obvious, I will share what I have learned "from the trenches" that I think is very important. Most public schools rely on parental input to be successful, be that activity in the classrooms, active PTA & foundations, and support of the child for homework, behavior, etc. Although this sounds obvious, where you don't have active parent participation, the schools struggle a bit more. My kids school relies on parents to act as subs too. I won't say this is directly related to affluence or education, but probably a combo of both. The more affluent the area, the greater the likelihood that you will have more parent involvement. No judgement, just the way it is. Actually our school has a program where we volunteer in a sister school that has virtually no parent involvement. It's quite enlightening. Anyway in my rambling my point was don't discount parent activity, I think it's a biggie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
Sad news... just heard Mike Starr died. Seemed like he was doing well, too.
The US school system is foreign to me too. Apart from the obvious, I will share what I have learned "from the trenches" that I think is very important. Most public schools rely on parental input to be successful, be that activity in the classrooms, active PTA & foundations, and support of the child for homework, behavior, etc. Although this sounds obvious, where you don't have active parent participation, the schools struggle a bit more. My kids school relies on parents to act as subs too. I won't say this is directly related to affluence or education, but probably a combo of both. The more affluent the area, the greater the likelihood that you will have more parent involvement. No judgement, just the way it is. Actually our school has a program where we volunteer in a sister school that has virtually no parent involvement. It's quite enlightening. Anyway in my rambling my point was don't discount parent activity, I think it's a biggie.
Thanks Zimbo, I see what you mean. How does one go about finding all of this out? If I narrowed down a few schools that appear good on paper - mainly based on community buzz from forums such as CD and Philadelphia Speaks - how do you actually go about checking out whether the school is right for you, practically speaking? Can you go there? I'm not really sure how it works. How did you know your school had all these attributes?
(Sorry about the third degree. I'm really grateful for the help.)
How do you actually go about checking out whether the school is right for you, practically speaking? Can you go there?
You can definitely make an appointment to visit schools where you are interested in moving.
I'm not sure of your daughter's age. If you're looking at elementary schools, I HIGHLY recommend visiting the middle school and high school for those areas too. There can be great elementary schools in the city environment for a specific neighborhood, but that neighborhood might feed into a terrible high school. These are the challenges you face when seeking diversity. It's best to think ahead to later years of education and not just focus on the here and now of the elementary school.
Another problem when considering a city school district is that the zoning can quickly change for the which neighborhoods feed into which schools. As a result, your child can be attending an excellent school one year and the following year she could be in an extremely dangerous environment. If this happens, will you be able to financially afford sending your daughter to a private school? I wouldn't buy property unless you are financially prepared to switch from a public school to a private school at a moment's notice.
You can definitely make an appointment to visit schools where you are interested in moving.
I'm not sure of your daughter's age. If you're looking at elementary schools, I HIGHLY recommend visiting the middle school and high school for those areas too. There can be great elementary schools in the city environment for a specific neighborhood, but that neighborhood might feed into a terrible high school. These are the challenges you face when seeking diversity. It's best to think ahead to later years of education and not just focus on the here and now of the elementary school.
Another problem when considering a city school district is that the zoning can quickly change for the which neighborhoods feed into which schools. As a result, your child can be attending an excellent school one year and the following year she could be in an extremely dangerous environment. If this happens, will you be able to financially afford sending your daughter to a private school? I wouldn't buy property unless you are financially prepared to switch from a public school to a private school at a moment's notice.
Those are very good points, Hopes. That's scary, the thought that they can rezone the school district. That's a foreign concept to me, when I was a kid we moved several times in the same city but I attended the same school throughout.
We aren't planning on buying anytime soon, so that is not an issue. We will be capable of moving should the need arise. I guess if they change the zoning we'll just move house. Not that that would be ideal, but it would be an option if we don't have to sell in order to do it.
I am wary of any commitment to private school. MrFR and I are both freelance people - our circumstances can and do change at any given moment. If anything happened to either one of us the burden of tuition would probably prove too great to continue, and we'd have to relocate her - which is something I'd really like to avoid. I'd rather put money towards her college future, or maybe even a private high school, rather than towards elementary school.
Those are very good points, Hopes. That's scary, the thought that they can rezone the school district. That's a foreign concept to me, when I was a kid we moved several times in the same city but I attended the same school throughout.
We aren't planning on buying anytime soon, so that is not an issue. We will be capable of moving should the need arise. I guess if they change the zoning we'll just move house. Not that that would be ideal, but it would be an option if we don't have to sell in order to do it.
I am wary of any commitment to private school. MrFR and I are both freelance people - our circumstances can and do change at any given moment. If anything happened to either one of us the burden of tuition would probably prove too great to continue, and we'd have to relocate her - which is something I'd really like to avoid. I'd rather put money towards her college future, or maybe even a private high school, rather than towards elementary school.
BTW, she's nearly 4.
In a suburban school district, it's rare that rezoning can change schools---usually because there is only one middle school or one high school in a suburban district. Sometimes rezoning happens for elementary schools because most suburban districts have multiple elementary schools. It's not uncommon for a district to close down an elementary school.
In a city school district, it's more common at all grade levels. That's because city school districts have multiple high schools, middle schools and elementary schools. Some of the solutions that city school district administrators use to solve education problems can actually create dangerous schools. They'll close down a school in an impoverished, dangerous area and bus those chidlren to different schools. Not only do you have economic differences but you have a school alliance problem---where kids sort of form factions and it can become dangerous.
I don't know Philly like I know Pittsburgh, but most affluent city areas here are adjacent to impoverished ghettos. For example, we have an affluent area called Squirrel Hill. It has excellent elementary schools. The high school, Taylor Alderdice, is decent for a city school too. Homewood, one of our most dangerous ghettos is close to Squirrel Hill. Its high school, Peabody, is scheduled to be closed. I have no doubt that many of the children who attend Peabody will be sent to Taylor Alderdice, which is already an extremely diverse school but has minimal racial tensions and an excellent academic reputation.
When I was growing up in the suburbs, merging districts became the craze in the 1970s. School districts in poorer suburban areas were closed down and merged into the affluent school districts. There wasn't even a racial component in these merges because all of the districts were predominantly white (the districts I'm specifically discussing). The tension component was all economic. And there were serious riots. My sister hid under a cafeteria table during one riot where a teacher's arm was broken nearby. This was back before there were weapons in school. I'm just shairng this to help you understand how the economic factor and merging schools is a hard transition.
We have a suburban school district near the city called Woodland Hills. It's a very diverse district---economically, racially, etc. I can't remember how long ago the school districts were merged together, but it was more recent than the 1970s. It's a downright dangerous school district. The danger in this district isn't necessarily the affluent against the impoverished. The danger is because two separate ghetto school districts were merged into the affluent district. This merge resulted in bringing two rival gangs into one school.
I recommend finding a diverse school that went through this type of transition many, many decades ago. The other alternative is to move into an affluent area of the city since those schools are diverse via parents who are highly educated professionals. As a result, the diversity doesn't have the typical racial tension of schools that are diverse via mergers. Just be aware that the school could be merged with a neighboring school at anytime---like Peabody students will likely be merged with Taylor Alderdice students in Pittsburgh in the near future.
Diversity is great. But it's only great when it's by choice. When people are forced together via policy, it takes decades for a school to become safe in Pennsylvania.
Keep in mind that the demographics of the northeast are much different than the demograpics of other regions of the country. Pennsylvania schools have different challenges than schools in other states and vise versa because there are different demographics and different policies, such as open enrollment vs lottery, etc.
Finster, we moved to where we are now when our son was just starting kindergarten. The elementary he went to has lower rating on those school sites because it is one of the few bi-lingual ones in our town.
If I were to have gone off of that, he would have missed out on what we considered the best elementary experience he could have had. The school had heavy parent volunteering, it was such a great environment. We loved that school.
Our son has been with the same group of kids since kindergarten - but of course more were added to the mix when he reached middle school, and a few more in high school since the high school is the only one with the IB program, so kids from around town go there.
Our son's best friend is Hispanic. Let me tell you, those were some fun birthday parties when they were younger! Talk about a family event.
Around here, there is open enrollment. So you can really chose to go to any school, as long as there is room. I think on the few occasions I've heard of rezoning (it does happen here if a new school is built), the kids had the choice of staying at the original schools they were zoned for.
I think your child will adapt beautifully to whatever you embrace - it sounds to me like the city is just more your style.
We are having such a grey rainy day - double blah! Fighting with the misogynists on P&OC - triple blah! Off to play math games with 4th graders.
To interrupt a terrific discussion on choosing schools... I really have to stop going to POC. People who think everyone else is an uneducated, uninformed idiot make me nuts.
Okey dokey. Got that out of my system. Carry on!
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Seemed like he was doing well, too.
I'm really grateful for the help.)
