Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think it is kind of silly when people say nowhere in an entire large city could someone raise kids. Many children live in big cities and no it is not just ghetto kids and rich kids. It often requires more research but cities usually have some good neighborhoods and public schools, the only exception I can think of is maybe Detroit. Really the suburbs are something many people are just borderline hypnotized to believe and most just repeat the phrases of praise to suburbs and what is supposedly wrong with cities like parrots.
Look. I worked in Center City Philadelphia for 13 years. I have family all over the city. I covered the city schools as a journalist for three of those years. I know the community. There are lots of great things about the city, and there are enough bad things about it that I know I don't want to live there and do not want my kids being raised there. You can't understand my perspective? Well, you don't have to. Just don't insult my intelligence by claiming that someone like me who prefers the suburbs is "hypnotized" or "parrots" anything. If you really believe this, you're the one who hasn't done your research.
I love living in Philly with a kid just as much as I've loved living anywhere, and I've lived in a lot of places. I would probably say the exact opposite to what you've posted.
Guess it all depends on what you like and what you value, huh? Just shows how different things feel to different people.
Are you satisfied with the schools your kids go to?
We came very close to moving to Philadelphia this summer. Ended up going with New York, but from my research it was my understanding that some of the schools serving Center City neighborhoods were excellent these days, and that there were many local families committed to continuing to help them to improve.
Look. I worked in Center City Philadelphia for 13 years. I have family all over the city. I covered the city schools as a journalist for three of those years. I know the community. There are lots of great things about the city, and there are enough bad things about it that I know I don't want to live there and do not want my kids being raised there. You can't understand my perspective? Well, you don't have to. Just don't insult my intelligence by claiming that someone like me who prefers the suburbs is "hypnotized" or "parrots" anything. If you really believe this, you're the one who hasn't done your research.
Look my statements are not directed at you or your personal choices. I do not like absolute statements, and when people say there is no place in a city safe to raise kids that is usually not true. I have done my research, especially when it comes to Chicago and I doubt Philly is that different and others have already attested. Now given that there are some good public schools and affordable Catholic school in the city I also understand not every person is into the city lifestyle and might still choose the suburbs. I am a city person and know first hand plenty of middle class families raise kids in the city. The parrots are the people who believe they don't exist, so unless you fall into that category you are not one of them. If you are happy with your choice, more power to you, people take things way too personally. Can I ask you this, do you think every single square mile of Philadelphia has these problems? Do you think middle class parents who choose to live in the city are bad parents? Respect is a two way street, so when people make absolute statements about raising kids in the city the logical answer is either they either have disrespect for urban parents or are ignorant. It seems to be human nature to see things in black and white, reality is usually shades of grey. I don't like the double standard in this society where suburbanites can say the most ignorant things about the city and get away with it but when somebody has the GAUL to stand up to the suburban hegemony well then I must be some horrible person for questioning the orthodoxy!
You cannot just turn them out to wander at will in the city.
There is no place for them to play and explore. No streams, woods, fields, rivers or lakes (most cities).
The noise and hubub of a household with children is dauting. Many parents do not want the endless noise rush and confusion of city life thrown into the mix.
Most cities have bad public schools.
Most cities have crime issues. It is one thing to put yourself and your adult spouse at risk in exchange for the fun of city life. It is another thing to risk your children's safety.
As more and more families move out of cities, the remaining few want to move too. they want other kids for their kids to play with.
You are not likely to encounter drug dealers, homeless, or hookers on the corner of a suburban town or neighborhood.
Bike trails and little used roads.
Room for a puppy and a swingset.
More babysitters available.
Better emergency response time.
Easier to teach kids to drive, ride a bike and/or play safely if you live where there is no traffic.
In many cities you can afford a larger house in the suburbs. Five to seven people living in a two bedroom apartment is not very pleasant.
No one is saying that you cannot raise children in a city. However the OP asked why people prefer it. It is more pleasant, comfortable and at elast feels safer. It is less crazy and harried. You have more space both inside and outside the house. The freaks and wierdos who are fun to look at and watch are not necessarily the people you want around your kids. They tend to stay in the cities.
There is a big difference between "cannot" raise kids in a city and "do not want to"
When we lived in a city, our kids played in an empty parking lot at night and on weekends. We could take them to a park, ut it was a planned event. They could play a little in our small back yard, but we did not want them playing in the front yard unless we were right there with them. We did not let them wander around far from the house even the ones who were 12-14. We had to carefulyl vet their friends and listen to their conversations. Some of the kids they met at school were abused and therefore abusive. Private schools were 12,000 per kid per year. Public schools were bad unless you transported your kids to charter schools.
Fast forward to suburb life: We have 1 acre of land surrounded by woods. We live on an island with 10,000 people. There is almost no crime. Most people do not lock their doors. Our rules for our kids: "Do not leave the island. Be back by dark." No other rules are necessary. They and their friends wander in and out of our house and any surrounding house at will. Our kids can chose to canoe, or kayak, play in the woods, bike for 10 or more miles, ride or walk to the little town about 1 mile away. They have dozens of friends, and not one of them has been to juvi. Public schools are beyond excellent. 96% of the kids go to college. If we want City life, it is half an hour away.
I understand the appeal of City life, but is suburb living better for kids? Absolutely.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 11-18-2011 at 11:24 AM..
Are you satisfied with the schools your kids go to?
I don't know yet, we're currently waiting to see which school she's going to go to. She's in a private preschool at the moment. However, the three public schools that are around our general area are pretty good, by all accounts. It has definitely been a concern, and our neighborhood school is not suitable, we have to apply for a transfer, and will likely move as a result.
But - I love living in this general neighborhood and I've found it's a great place for kids. Lots and lots of stuff to do, playgrounds, parks, you name it. And I know people throw this around a lot, but I really do like the mix of people, and I think the diversity will be a plus to my kid.
The other thing I like is that we are able to walk and take public transport to school and anywhere else she and I wish to go. There's something to be said for walking that keeps you connected to the community you live in more than driving everywhere does. We have a whole network of people that we see on our travels everyday that we say hi too that we wouldn't know otherwise. I love that about it.
Look my statements are not directed at you or your personal choices. I do not like absolute statements, and when people say there is no place in a city safe to raise kids that is usually not true. I have done my research, especially when it comes to Chicago and I doubt Philly is that different and others have already attested.
Well, I'm originally from Chgo and was raised near Philly. While that does not make me THE expert on either place, I think I have some idea of what's happening.
Quote:
Now given that there are some good public schools and affordable Catholic school in the city I also understand not every person is into the city lifestyle and might still choose the suburbs.
I love the city. I love Chicago, like Philly and New York. I just don't see any reason to live in the city the way things stand now, with one kid in high school and one in middle school. There is not one public neighborhood high school in Philadelphia that I would feel comfortable in sending my kids to. In my suburban district, Mandarin Chinese is offered as a language choice starting in the fourth grade. There is a comprehensive choral and instrumental music program for kids starting in elementary school. The athletic facilities - my sons are very much high-level in basketball and football - in my district are top-notch. In Philly public schools, none of this is an option.
Quote:
I am a city person and know first hand plenty of middle class families raise kids in the city. The parrots are the people who believe they don't exist, so unless you fall into that category you are not one of them. If you are happy with your choice, more power to you, people take things way too personally. Can I ask you this, do you think every single square mile of Philadelphia has these problems?
Does it have problems that keep me from wanting to live there? Yes. There are many aspects to life in Philadelphia that keep me out. Many of my reasons have nothing to do with education.
Quote:
Do you think middle class parents who choose to live in the city are bad parents? Respect is a two way street, so when people make absolute statements about raising kids in the city the logical answer is either they either have disrespect for urban parents or are ignorant.
I don't disrespect urban parents. My parents were urban parents. It's just that the educational climate (as well as other aspects of the climate in the city) is not as conducive to giving my children the best possible situation from which to succeed as what is available in the suburbs.
Quote:
It seems to be human nature to see things in black and white, reality is usually shades of grey. I don't like the double standard in this society where suburbanites can say the most ignorant things about the city and get away with it but when somebody has the GAUL to stand up to the suburban hegemony well then I must be some horrible person for questioning the orthodoxy!
That would be gall. Gaul is an ancient name for what is now France.
If you had been educated in the suburbs, you'd know that.
Guys, this is the Parenting board. I keep hoping this conversation will come back to the topic of parenting, but there's a lot of City vs. City going on here.
You cannot just turn them out to wander at will in the city.
There is no place for them to play and explore. No streams, woods, fields, rivers or lakes (most cities).
The noise and hubub of a household with children is dauting. Many parents do not want the endless noise rush and confusion of city life thrown into the mix.
Most cities have bad public schools.
Most cities have crime issues. It is one thing to put yourself and your adult spouse at risk in exchange for the fun of city life. It is another thing to risk your children's safety.
You are not likely to encounter drug dealers, homeless, or hookers on the corner of a suburban town or neighborhood.
Bingo. As a black man, I will not subject my physically big children to danger from both our own people AND the murderous police force. Philly has a very high murder rate among young black and Latino men, as well as a high incidence of police brutality.
Quote:
No one is saying that you cannot raise children in a city. However the OP asked why people prefer it. It is more pleasant, comfortable and at elast feels safer. It is less crazy and harried. You have more space both inside and outside the house. The freaks and wierdos who are fun to look at and watch are not necessarily the people you want around your kids. They tend to stay in the cities.
There is a big difference between "cannot" raise kids in a city and "do not want to"
When we lived in a city, our kids played in an empty parking lot at night and on weekends. We could take them to a park, ut it was a planned event. They could play a little in our small back yard, but we did not want them playing in the front yard unless we were right there with them. We did not let them wander around far from the house even the ones who were 12-14. We had to carefulyl vet their friends and listen to their conversations. Some of the kids they met at school were abused and therefore abusive. Private schools were 12,000 per kid per year. Public schools were bad unless you transported your kids to charter schools.
Fast forward to suburb life: We have 1 acre of land surrounded by woods. We live on an island with 10,000 people. There is almost no crime. Most people do not lock their doors. Our rules for our kids: "Do not leave the island. Be back by dark." No other rules are necessary. They and their friends wander in and out of our house and any surrounding house at will. Our kids can chose to canoe, or kayak, play in the woods, bike for 10 or more miles, ride or walk to the little town about 1 mile away. They have dozens of friends, and not one of them has been to juvi. Public schools are beyond excellent. 96% of the kids go to college. If we want City life, it is half an hour away.
I understand the appeal of City life, but is suburb living better for kids? Absolutely.
I am in the city all the time, and so are my wife and kids - but I will never, at least until they are 18 - allow my kids to travel into the city without me, and even then I will strongly suggest they do not wander whereever and whenever after sundown. That's just how life is now.
I think it is kind of silly when people say nowhere in an entire large city could someone raise kids. Many children live in big cities and no it is not just ghetto kids and rich kids. It often requires more research but cities usually have some good neighborhoods and public schools, the only exception I can think of is maybe Detroit. Really the suburbs are something many people are just borderline hypnotized to believe and most just repeat the phrases of praise to suburbs and what is supposedly wrong with cities like parrots.
And these neighborhoods are remarkably like suburbs, if not in land use, in other demographics.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
