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Old 05-18-2012, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 6,927,780 times
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The thing that people don't seem to understand is that AP is not all about the specific practices, it is a philosophy about the way that you treat and interact with your kid. Those specific practices - breastfeeding, co-sleeping, babywearing, etc - are tools that can help you with that, but they are not requirements of AP. AP says feed with love and respect - I know bottle-feeding parents who AP. They "bottle-nurse" and feed on-demand. I know parents who AP but do not co-sleep. But they do practice "night-time parenting", respond to their kids at night, do not CIO, etc. I know parents who AP and use a stroller more than a sling, too. I know LOTS of parents who AP and work outside the home full-time, including myself. These practices are just tools that can help you AP, they are not the essence of AP though. AP tells us that these practices are "okay" and even "good" to do if they help you, whereas much of society is telling us doom and gloom will occur if you use them, which is why these practices are associated with AP. But really, that's not what it's all about.
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:25 AM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,181,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
no
yes
yes
yes and yes
yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
Can you be an AP and feed on a schedule? No
not co-sleep? Yes
work during the first year and send the baby to day care? Yes
use a stroller? a bouncy seat? Yes
Get a sitter and go on a date? Yes
so how is it really any different than what most people do anyway? I am getting 2 very different ideas of what AP is about. On one hand, it is parenting 101 and not worth all the hype. On the other hand, I picture moms and babies joined at the hip (or boob) 24/7 for at least 2 years - no working, no babysitters, no time away, family beds, etc.

The only person I even know who is a self-described AP (friend of a friend) nursed for an extended time, and took the first year off of work, followed by her husband taking a year off of work so one of them could be with the child at all times. I thought this was the basis for AP. I'm surprised and confused to hear that it is ok to work and use sitters.
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:29 AM
 
2,502 posts, read 8,922,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
I think you are really misunderstanding AP. Yes, there are some fanatics out there. They probably have the loudest voices and are the ones who give AP a bad name but most people I know who consider themselves AP parents are very normal people with lives outside of their children, just like any other parent really.
I don't misunderstand AP. I know that the specific beliefs I mentioned are only the views of the fanatics. That's why I said at the beginning that I only have a problem with the fanatic and extremist factions of AP.


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Old 05-18-2012, 10:49 AM
 
606 posts, read 944,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
AP tells us that these practices are "okay" and even "good" to do if they help you, whereas much of society is telling us doom and gloom will occur if you use them, which is why these practices are associated with AP. But really, that's not what it's all about.
I guess inasmuch as I have a beef with AP it's that it's co-opted the attachment theory that it's purportedly based on without much or anything in the way of backing.

We have some good quality research that shows that people with a certain attachment style (secure attachment) are capable of developing healthy relationships, and that there are other attachment styles that are dysfunctional. So far so good. The promise of AP (and I'm getting this mostly from the Sears book) is that if you follow the practices Sears has outlined -- breastfeeding, babywearing, cosleeping, responsive communication, no CIO, etc. -- you'll develop in your child that secure attachment, a psychological base from which they'll be better suited to explore the world because their needs will be met.

The problem is that there's no good reason to believe that either the factual or the counterfactual is true. There's no particular reason to believe that children whose parents practice AP are more likely to develop secure attachment and no particular reason to believe that children whose parents do not practice AP are more likely to develop dysfunctional attachment styles.

None of this should be a problem either for people who practice AP or who don't practice AP; you can raise healthy, happy kids either way! Where you do see problems are when people swallow the AP gospel wholeheartedly and then find themselves overwhelmed by the demands that AP can place on parents. Or people on both sides of the aisle find themselves confronted by an avalanche of you're doing it wrong when, to the best of our collective knowledge, neither of them are doing it wrong.
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Old 05-18-2012, 11:08 AM
 
2,502 posts, read 8,922,577 times
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I do have a serious question about AP though. It's about the practices of feeding on demand and responding immediately to crying.

How do the babies learn to tolerate frustration? Frustration tolerance is a crucial life skill. It's a basic principle of life that you can't always get what you want, exactly when you want it. Sometimes in life the answer is no. Sometimes you have to wait.

How do AP babies and toddlers learn this concept if the parents always give in to demands immediately? Do the babies grow into demanding, spoiled, impatient kids who expect to get what they want right away?

Again, this is a serious question (not an attack).
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Old 05-18-2012, 11:30 AM
 
14,294 posts, read 13,194,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
so how is it really any different than what most people do anyway?

I think it was a response to the old schooly your kid will be spoiled if you don't get into a feeding/sleeping schedule. Spare the rod and spoil the child, etc mindset.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:07 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,926,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radraja View Post
I do have a serious question about AP though. It's about the practices of feeding on demand and responding immediately to crying.

How do the babies learn to tolerate frustration? Frustration tolerance is a crucial life skill. It's a basic principle of life that you can't always get what you want, exactly when you want it. Sometimes in life the answer is no. Sometimes you have to wait.

How do AP babies and toddlers learn this concept if the parents always give in to demands immediately? Do the babies grow into demanding, spoiled, impatient kids who expect to get what they want right away?

Again, this is a serious question (not an attack).
Feeding on demand goes on through infancy. Once the child is old enough to eat solid food and meals with the family, this gradually goes away (although I imagine AP parents may be more lenient about between meal snacks - not sure).

Infants do NOT need to learn to tolerate frustration, that comes when the infant becomes a toddler. If an infant learns that his parent is reliable and that his needs are met quickly, he learns as he grows that he can wait because he knows his parent will meet those needs.

It's about following the cues of your child, not about giving in to every demand. It's about respecting your child, not about letting him rule the roost.
You shape the child without disrespecting him. You teach him to be respectful of your needs because you are respectful of his. You teach the child the difference between wants and needs and help him to respond appropriately. It's different from prolonged dependency.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Hillsborough
2,825 posts, read 6,927,780 times
Reputation: 2669
Quote:
Originally Posted by radraja View Post
I do have a serious question about AP though. It's about the practices of feeding on demand and responding immediately to crying.

How do the babies learn to tolerate frustration? Frustration tolerance is a crucial life skill. It's a basic principle of life that you can't always get what you want, exactly when you want it. Sometimes in life the answer is no. Sometimes you have to wait.

How do AP babies and toddlers learn this concept if the parents always give in to demands immediately? Do the babies grow into demanding, spoiled, impatient kids who expect to get what they want right away?

Again, this is a serious question (not an attack).
I think this is a common misconception about AP. People think that we give our kids whatever they want, whenever they want it. But that's not true. Responding compassionately doesn't mean always giving in. It's not that my child never cries, but she doesn't cry alone without a compassionate caregiver for comfort. I think that non-AP parents also tout "self-soothing" to be a much more important goal than AP parents. I don't expect my infant to self-soothe. I would rather she learns love and trust than self-soothing as an infant. Non-AP parents are very focused on independence at (what I would consider) too early of an age. I expect my baby to be dependent on me, and that she will learn independence with time when it is (what I would consider) more age-appropriate.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:29 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 6,185,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radraja View Post
I don't misunderstand AP. I know that the specific beliefs I mentioned are only the views of the fanatics. That's why I said at the beginning that I only have a problem with the fanatic and extremist factions of AP.


Gotcha.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,466,514 times
Reputation: 41122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
The thing that people don't seem to understand is that AP is not all about the specific practices, it is a philosophy about the way that you treat and interact with your kid. Those specific practices - breastfeeding, co-sleeping, babywearing, etc - are tools that can help you with that, but they are not requirements of AP. AP says feed with love and respect - I know bottle-feeding parents who AP. They "bottle-nuhyrse" and feed on-demand. I know parents who AP but do not co-sleep. But they do practice "night-time parenting", respond to their kids at night, do not CIO, etc. I know parents who AP and use a stroller more than a sling, too. I know LOTS of parents who AP and work outside the home full-time, including myself. These practices are just tools that can help you AP, they are not the essence of AP though. AP tells us that these practices are "okay" and even "good" to do if they help you, whereas much of society is telling us doom and gloom will occur if you use them, which is why these practices are associated with AP. But really, that's not what it's all about.
I think terms like "night time parenting" don't help. To me it sounds as if the inference is that those who don't follow this method are choosing to simply not parent at night. JMO
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