Should Parents Force Their Children to Attend Church? (Cary, leave, age)
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So you're wanting to debate my analogy? lol
My children will learn that there will be things that they don't won't to do that they will do
And is your "odd" supposed to equal anything substantial in regards to my parenting?
I'm asking you why you would want your children to feel the same way about church as you do about your job.
Now, I am an atheist. Someone said on this thread that atheists can't possibly understand church, which is perhaps true. But I always thought that people went to church because they enjoyed it and it meant something to them. I've actually been lead to believe that it meant something on a deep and personal level. I assumed that those who felt this way would want their children to feel this way as well.
So have I been wrong? Is church really just something to suffer through and endure, and on object lesson for children in how to do the same?
I can see comparing school to work. Both are things that we may not enjoy or may not agree with all of the politics of, but there is a pay-off in the end (a paycheck or a diploma.) But I thought that faith was its own pay-off and that church was a sharing of faith.
I'm asking you why you would want your children to feel the same way about church as you do about your job.
Now, I am an atheist. Someone said on this thread that atheists can't possibly understand church, which is perhaps true. But I always thought that people went to church because they enjoyed it and it meant something to them. I've actually been lead to believe that it meant something on a deep and personal level. I assumed that those who felt this way would want their children to feel this way as well.
So have I been wrong? Is church really just something to suffer through and endure, and on object lesson for children in how to do the same?
I can see comparing school to work. Both are things that we may not enjoy or may not agree with all of the politics of, but there is a pay-off in the end (a paycheck or a diploma.) But I thought that faith was its own pay-off and that church was a sharing of faith.
But you assumed that I hate my job, and you're wrong! I said I strongly disagree with the politics there. The post would have been much longer had I added how my co-workers(and my direct supervisor) and I get along, laugh, talk, treat each other to lunch etc. and how one co-worker accepted my invitation to church these things can be factual but it doesn't change that at the core there are things I do not and hopefully will not agree with. I enjoy and appreciate that I have a job and I'm not 20, I've learned to get along with people I don't always agree with!
Your assumption concerning church being enjoyable is spot on as far as my own personal experience. I not only thoroughly enjoy it, but I learn and gain strength from it....(for instance, how do you think I am able to work in such an environment and not only get along, but do well and enjoy those that I work with--and vice versa-- even though I don't agree with or believe in some of the things they do?)
But you assumed that I hate my job, and you're wrong! I said I strongly disagree with the politics there. The post would have been much longer had I added how my co-workers(and my direct supervisor) and I get along, laugh, talk, treat each other to lunch etc. and how one co-worker accepted my invitation to church these things can be factual but it doesn't change that at the core there are things I do not and hopefully will not agree with. I enjoy and appreciate that I have a job and I'm not 20, I've learned to get along with people I don't always agree with!
Your assumption concerning church being enjoyable is spot on as far as my own personal experience. I not only thoroughly enjoy it, but I learn and gain strength from it....(for instance, how do you think I am able to work in such an environment and not only get along, but do well and enjoy those that I work with--and vice versa-- even though I don't agree with or believe in some of the things they do?)
The end point for your analogy was teaching children that sometimes they have to do things that they don't want to. Which I agree is a good lesson.
I just don't understand why you'd want to use church to teach it if the child strongly feels that they don't share the faith of that church. I'm assuming that parents take their children to church in the hopes that they will share their parent's faith. I would also think they would want to share that faith is sacred and personal.
It seems like forcing a child who doesn't share their faith to attend church teaches that religion is dogmatic, doesn't have tolerance for differing beliefs, and is something to endure. The child may sit in that seat every Sunday until they turn eighteen, but if they don't believe they don't believe. And they are very unlikely to change their mind if those are the lessons they've been taught about church and faith. Where if the parents backed off and helped the child to explore their own beliefs in their own time, they might well return to the church on their own.
I guess it depends on what is more important...sharing the faith or having control
Children should have a say once they understand their beliefs whether they believe in Go or not. I'm my child doesn't what is the exact purpose of taking him? Everbody failed to answer this question.
Many of you said you wouldn't make him participate, which means, he doesn't have to sing, pray ,except communion or even speak.
I have a story that's kind of the opposite to this thread, and I have to dispute that statement.
I grew up in a non religious household, however when I was fourteen my best friend was the daughter of the local Methodist minister. I would sometimes stay over at their's on the weekend, and I'd go to church with them, because obviously that's where they went on a Sunday morning.
That was fine, and I thought it was interesting, but I didn't have much of an Epiphany or anything as a result.
One summer, I went on vacation with them for a week. It was some kind of church organized event.
One evening, they showed a very graphic and realistic movie about The Rapture. Now, I'd never really heard of such a thing. It was so awful, and so scary - the way they told the story of people being left behind and then having to undergo dreadful torture etc etc - that it completely freaked me out.
I went home and was terrified that this was going to happen to my mother. She basically asked me if Jesus, who was such a good dude, would really allow something like that to happen - a good question - but honestly it shook me up no end and took months to get over and sort out in my own head.
So while I think it's very nice that people bond in church as a family, and learn good things from it - I find it hard to think of it as always a nice benign exercise that keeps kids out of trouble and is just about passing on a parent's traditions and whatnot, leaving the kids once they're grown to follow their own path.
I think it would take a very strong minded kid to shake off the "lessons" of that movie and it's motivation in keeping people in line - because it was absolutely a scare tactic, which basically said "If you don't believe, then this is what's going to happen to you, so you'd better".
I realize not everyone religion practices that kind of hard line molding of minds, but I do take issue with it. My mother had to do the opposite to most parents, and try and stop me from falling for that particular piece of propaganda, at a very vulnerable age.
Keep in mind also that this was not a cult of any kind, but a normal mainstream denomination.
Very surprised that a mainstream denomination such as Methodist would show that film. He must have been a very conservative minister.
I think you mean "Left Behind" A friend invited me to see it in my late teens at her fundamentalist church. It's scary and I personally don't believe in this.
The end point for your analogy was teaching children that sometimes they have to do things that they don't want to. Which I agree is a good lesson.
I just don't understand why you'd want to use church to teach it if the child strongly feels that they don't share the faith of that church. I'm assuming that parents take their children to church in the hopes that they will share their parent's faith. I would also think they would want to share that faith is sacred and personal.
It seems like forcing a child who doesn't share their faith to attend church teaches that religion is dogmatic, doesn't have tolerance for differing beliefs, and is something to endure. The child may sit in that seat every Sunday until they turn eighteen, but if they don't believe they don't believe. And they are very unlikely to change their mind if those are the lessons they've been taught about church and faith. Where if the parents backed off and helped the child to explore their own beliefs in their own time, they might well return to the church on their own.
I guess it depends on what is more important...sharing the faith or having control
I don't use church as a means to teach my children they have to do things they don't want to do. I am presenting my bottom line as it concerns the topic of this thread. My youngest child loves church, he enjoys the interaction, the play, the trips, the fact that in childrens church he is being taught the bible on a level that he can understand(which is how his father and I present it/teach at home). My oldest, who is not home but in college, also enjoyed church, tremendously! As he became older, he began to question what he believed, which I understood, understand and don't begrudge! It's a moot point though because he can do what he darn well pleases.
So, my response to this thread is a general one. I haven't had to force. But I will teach, both in practice(hopefully) and with my expectations as a parent that there will be things that we all will do that we don't neccesarily want to. I've personally found too much strength/grace in Christ to deny the exposure to my children! but when they become older and out of my home, they can do whatever the wind leads them to do. I'd still love them!
so it's probably beyond cruel to require your children to do what they don't want, agree with, believe in or think is a good idea?
and "who cares, it's the way it is", is akin to abuse.........or what??
This is an oversimplification of a complex issue. While there are a lot of churches who's core values are honesty, trust, compassion for your fellow man, selflessness etc - and obviously these are great values to teach children - there are some that include truly hateful (to me) messages in their doctrine.
What if your family's church is the one that cancelled an interacial couple's marriage a month or so ago? What if your family's church is one that teaches intolerance of gay people, or that women should be submissive, or that it's okay to beat your child because God said so? What of churches that scare kids into believing using end of days prophecy and hell as motivation? What if your family's church is the Westboro Baptist?
If a child has reached an age where they're developing their own moral compass, and they know on some level this is all wrong and they are confused and feel hypocritical and are really struggling with some of the messages - then no, I don't believe you should force them to attend just because you say so.
If a child (a 15, 16, 17 year old) is having a serious conflict with what's being taught by the church their parents attend, and they say as much - then they deserve the respect of being listened to, IMHO.
This idea that it's completely harmless is not true in all cases. It takes some people years to resolve what they've been taught with the realizations they come to as an independent thinking adult.
And, the difference between forcing your children and your workplace story is that you are free to leave if you wish.
This is an oversimplification of a complex issue. While there are a lot of churches who's core values are honesty, trust, compassion for your fellow man, selflessness etc - and obviously these are great values to teach children - there are some that include truly hateful (to me) messages in their doctrine.
What if your family's church is the one that cancelled an interacial couple's marriage a month or so ago? What if your family's church is one that teaches intolerance of gay people, or that women should be submissive, or that it's okay to beat your child because God said so? What of churches that scare kids into believing using end of days prophecy and hell as motivation? What if your family's church is the Westboro Baptist?
If a child has reached an age where they're developing their own moral compass, and they know on some level this is all wrong and they are confused and feel hypocritical and are really struggling with some of the messages - then no, I don't believe you should force them to attend just because you say so.
If a child (a 15, 16, 17 year old) is having a serious conflict with what's being taught by the church their parents attend, and they say as much - then they deserve the respect of being listened to, IMHO.
This idea that it's completely harmless is not true in all cases. It takes some people years to resolve what they've been taught with the realizations they come to as an independent thinking adult.
And, the difference between forcing your children and your workplace story is that you are free to leave if you wish.
It's not complex to me at all! despite the round and round that this thread has taken. I attend a church where I agree with(or can) what God has revealed to me in His Word and in my heart. Yes, there are plenty churches that do otherwise. thank goodness, that's not my story
Despite what you and others may see as an unfair analogy with my work story, once 18, children are able to leave as well. I did! actually at 17 when I went to college. 18 years is fairly short compared to all the years that are possible for an adult. They will get over it
It's not complex to me at all! despite the round and round that this thread has taken. I attend a church where I agree with(or can) what God has revealed to me in His Word and in my heart. Yes, there are plenty churches that do otherwise. thank goodness, that's not my story
Despite what you and others may see as an unfair analogy with my work story, once 18, children are able to leave as well. I did! actually at 17 when I went to college. 18 years is fairly short compared to all the years that are possible for an adult. They will get over it
The thing is, every adult who attends a church believes in that faith and that version of god. So all of those adults in churches with beliefs that aren't about love or tolerance or what-have-you...they all feel exactly the same way you do.
They don't feel their church is hateful or damaging. They feel that same sense of rightness and 'home' that you do. Your church could also have views that you don't feel are damaging at all that could be damaging to your children because they aren't you.
You've said your own children enjoy church. This entire thread is about children who don't. Would you really force your children to continue to attend if they felt that God had revealed in their heart a different Word?
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these things can be factual but it doesn't change that at the core there are things I do not and hopefully will not agree with. I enjoy and appreciate that I have a job and I'm not 20, I've learned to get along with people I don't always agree with! 
)
) and with my expectations as a parent that there will be things that we all will do that we don't neccesarily want to. I've personally found too much strength/grace in Christ to deny the exposure to my children! but when they become older and out of my home, they can do whatever the wind leads them to do. I'd still love them!
