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Old 09-04-2012, 11:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
I agree with most of this. But the idea that every person was created to do something specific in life is not to say that people don't have choices, or that desire should be ignored. Often a strong desire is the best hint that a child is headed in the right direction. We all need to learn to make smart choices. We also need to learn that all choices are not created equal, that some choices get us closer to the goal than others, and that some choices are flat-out wrong and very costly.

As for female astronauts, I'm sure that quite a few women are capable - but capability alone is not a sufficient reason for doing things. I'm capable of doing lots of things I shouldn't do. I don't know much about being an astronaut, but my hunch is that the career is overrated anyway. It's definitely not man's highest achievement, as is so often implied. I was horrified when I watched, on live television, two women blown to bits on the space shuttle Challenger. One of them left two young children behind. This was a failure of civilization. It's the responsibility of men to keep women and children out of harms' way to the best of their abilities.
Baloney. You don't get to choose as a parent. You might point out the obstacles the child will face. You might try to inject wisdom into your child's quest for his or her goals. But to simply tell your child that his ambition is unrealistic is to ground his soul to powder.

When I set forth some of my goals growing up, my father laughed at them. Guess what? I went out and accomplished most of them anyway, and am on the path to fulfill several others. I might not get to them all during my time on earth, but it's been a rich and beautiful life I have for having dared to try. What an impoverished life I would have led had I actually listened to him. Or to people like you, for that matter.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:18 AM
 
14,294 posts, read 13,192,076 times
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Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
It's the responsibility of men to keep women and children out of harms' way to the best of their abilities.
I disagree entirely with this. It is our job to teach them how to keep themselves out of harm's way.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:19 AM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,183,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
This was a failure of civilization.
It was a failure of the design of Morton Thiokol's O-rings and the flawed decision making (regarding launch times) of NASA.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:23 AM
 
Location: The Other California
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Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I disagree entirely with this. It is our job to teach them how to keep themselves out of harm's way.
Do you know any real women? They are lovers, and they will sacrifice it all if you let them. You can't "teach" it out of them.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:27 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,901 posts, read 42,706,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
As for female astronauts, I'm sure that quite a few women are capable - but capability alone is not a sufficient reason for doing things. I'm capable of doing lots of things I shouldn't do. I don't know much about being an astronaut, but my hunch is that the career is overrated anyway. It's definitely not man's highest achievement, as is so often implied. I was horrified when I watched, on live television, two women blown to bits on the space shuttle Challenger. One of them left two young children behind. This was a failure of civilization. It's the responsibility of men to keep women and children out of harms' way to the best of their abilities.
So when little Olivia announces she wants to be an astronaut, you think we should tell her it's a bad idea because she might blow up, and she should think of her future babies? With "Don't be sad, being an astronaut is not that great anyway" as the consolation? I'm not following.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:27 AM
 
14,294 posts, read 13,192,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Do you know any real women? They are lovers, and they will sacrifice it all if you let them. You can't "teach" it out of them.

I am not sure how that is related to my post. I am a real woman. So I am not sure what you mean about knowing any. You teach capability for themselves INTO children. I don't think all women are loving. I definitely thing that character and integrity need help developing as children grow. I don't think all people are lovers. But insofar as we are discussing gender traits, a man will sacrifice everything for love as well.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
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Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Do you know any real women? They are lovers, and they will sacrifice it all if you let them. You can't "teach" it out of them.
And you have absolutely no right to try. Real women may enjoy making a souffle, playing with the kids, tossing the football with little Suzy, changing the oil in the car, or reading up on Higgs bosun. Thankfully it's not up to you.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:32 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,165,927 times
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Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Do you know any real women? They are lovers, and they will sacrifice it all if you let them. You can't "teach" it out of them.
First rule of holes: When you're in one, stop digging.

One, your remark is totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Second, a good parent teaches his daughter to be self-sufficient and to make her own way in the world. For even the best of marriages does not mean complete security.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:32 AM
 
Location: The Other California
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Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
So when little Olivia announces she wants to be an astronaut, you think we should tell her it's a bad idea because she might blow up, and she should think of her future babies? With "Don't be sad, being an astronaut is not that great anyway" as the consolation? I'm not following.
That won't be necessary. All you have to do is gently encourage different dreams. Parents have more power than they realize. She'll forget about the astronaut thing in time.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:33 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,165,927 times
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Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
That won't be necessary. All you have to do is gently encourage different dreams. Parents have more power than they realize. She'll forget about the astronaut thing in time.
You must not be a parent. And if you are, God help your children.
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