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Yes -- why not have the freedom to have therapy? If it doesn't work and some insist it cannot work - then what's the big deal? Let people have the freedom. As for people not being able to change, why did Anne Heche change?
And people will go from sexual to asexual all the time, and vice versa, people do become celebate for whatever reasons they have.
They are free to have therapy that doesn't work according to studies from someone who is not licensed. Licensed therapists are required to practice that which has evidence.
People changing their sexual behavior is different than changing their sexual orientation. People are still welcome to seek therapy to change their sexual behavior through licensed therapists.
They are free to have therapy that doesn't work according to studies from someone who is not licensed. Licensed therapists are required to practice that which has evidence.
People changing their sexual behavior is different than changing their sexual orientation. people are still welcome to seek therapy to change their sexual behavior through licensed therapists.
Then all mental health therapy is in doubt -- you can't cure schizophrenia, nor depression, nor addiction. So you would deny them therapy?
Great posts and links, Jaymax. I am trying really hard to twist myself around to put myself in the position some of those on this thread hold. What I keep coming back to is that this is not belief vs. belief, where all things are equal. Licensed therapists don't practice based upon belief, they practice based upon what has been empirically studied.
To the best of my knowledge, no one is saying further research cannot be done to try and find support for the belief that one can change sexual orientation through therapy (I don't believe this is true based on the evidence that already exists, but for the sake of argument). In the (IMO, unlikely) event that an empirically supported treatment that changes one's sexual orientation could be developed, we could argue about right to choose that treatment; then it would be a question of belief choosing between empirically supported treatments with opposing goals. As it stands, there is NO treatment that exists that changes sexual orientation. People are arguing about something that does not exist. The people peddling the "therapy" in the OP are subject to the professional guidelines of practice, if they want to be licensed, same as any other therapist in any area of specialty. That is not about respecting different religious beliefs, it is about acknowledging the empirical data to date and the professional code of conduct of licensed therapists. I am uncertain that everyone understands this.
ETA: I wonder if those arguing about people's right to choose a therapy that has shown no evidence that it does what it claims and has been demonstrated to do harm would be making the same argument if the topic in question was a depression treatment or an anxiety treatment. I suspect not.
Then all mental health therapy is in doubt -- you can't cure schizophrenia, nor depression, nor addiction. So you would deny them therapy?
This thread saddens me because of the fundamental misunderstandings so many are showing about the field of psychology. Therapists are not allowed to use dunking (sitting in a chair and dunking the head repeatedly in cold water) to treat the symptoms of schizophrenia or depression anymore because there is no evidence that it works. At one time (colonial times) this was a treatment of choice. The treatments offered to manage symptoms of schizophrenia or depression (there is no such thing as "cure" in psychological science) are evidence-based, there is data that show the treatments achieve the goals they claim they do.
In no way am i saying someone experiencing same-sex attraction should not be allowed to seek treatment from a licensed therapist to deal with absolutely not wanting to identify as gay because it goes against their beliefs. The therapist is not allowed to say the client must identify as gay - what the therapist can't do is say they have a treatment that will change the person's sexual orientation (because that doesn't exist). The therapist can absolutely help the person change their sexual behavior (so that they are not acting on urges they find intolerable) and deal with emotional pain due to experiencing same-sex attraction that they do not want to experience. Do you see the difference?
Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 10-05-2012 at 06:39 AM..
Yes -- why not have the freedom to have therapy? If it doesn't work and some insist it cannot work - then what's the big deal? Let people have the freedom. As for people not being able to change, why did Anne Heche change?
And people will go from sexual to asexual all the time, and vice versa, people do become celebate for whatever reasons they have.
When did Anne Heche change? She said she was bisexual. That's not the same as homosexual.
People also change their sexual behavior. That's not changing their sexual orientation.
What's the big deal if it doesn't work? Oh I don't know.... Self-harm? Self-hate? Self-destructive behavior? Suicide? No big deal?
They are not "bad" for not wanting to live a lie - marrying the opposite sex, even though they are gay.
A therapist, parent, or spiritual advisor encouraging a gay individual marry someone of the opposite sex is unethical and sinful. The consequences are more often than not devastating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
Yes -- why not have the freedom to have therapy? If it doesn't work and some insist it cannot work - then what's the big deal? Let people have the freedom.
Because the consequences are often devastating. The incidence of suicide after failed conversion therapy is high. The issues that were the driving force behind turning to conversion therapy (usually an overly religious family) have an all or nothing expectation for success. If it fails do you honestly think those people are supportively standing by their kids giving them unconditional love and support?
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
As for people not being able to change, why did Anne Heche change?
Anne Heche is bisexual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
And people will go from sexual to asexual all the time, and vice versa, people do become celebate for whatever reasons they have.
Being asexual is not the same thing as choosing celibacy.
I wonder if those arguing about people's right to choose a therapy that has shown no evidence that it does what it claims and has been demonstrated to do harm would be making the same argument if the topic in question was a depression treatment or an anxiety treatment. I suspect not.
I also find it ironic that those who believe that people should be given any options to "change" their sexual attractions are invariably opposed to the notion of gender reassignment.
I also find it ironic that those who believe that people should be given any options to "change" their sexual attractions are invariably opposed to the notion of gender reassignment.
Because some of these people don't really care about a person's freedom, they think what is best is if everyone is heterosexual so they'll defend pseudo-science like conversion therapy to the end of the earth.
I also find it ironic that those who believe that people should be given any options to "change" their sexual attractions are invariably opposed to the notion of gender reassignment.
Unless it's in a fundamentalist Islamic country like Iran where homosexual men are sometimes forced to have gender reassignment surgery or face death. Ironically gender reassignment surgery is legal in Iran but there is confusion about homosexuality and transgenderism.
I don't know any gay men who actually want to be a woman.
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