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^^^^ That's the extreme, of course... but I have seen lots of parents who are completely helpless during their children's temper tantrums. My children were not permitted to let their behavior get that far. "Mom may I please have candy?" was met by only two answers, "Not today," or "Of course". They accepted the former without complaint or further discussion, although they were effusive in their thanks for the latter.
If you repetitively permit behavior problems to grow until the only answer is spanking to enforce the "I am the PARENT, YOU are the CHILD!" dynamic, then you are not doing it right. I was always the parent, I was always in charge. When DH and I were together, we were a team; we never subverted each other. We also never said "No...no... no... OK, YES!" - which lets a child know that, the more obnoxious he becomes, the more readily a parent will give in, and he has "won". Next time he knows how to "win", and he'll push it even further.
We had a lot of fun with our kids, we would do Mel Brooks or Monty Python skits with them on trips, we would play music and sing, we would try to top each other with smartazz comments when they were older, and we always had debates - political, social, theoretical - around the kitchen table during and after dinner, when we would all play rummy, spades, dominoes, or Trivial Pursuit together. Our kids were not fearful automatons; they were well-rounded individuals who learned self-respect and respect for others. They knew where the lines were, and did not cross them. That is what real parenting is, in our opinion.
If it were my intention to say that, I most likely would have. I was more referring to the failure on ones part to intellectually find a better resolution to a situation before turning to violence. Intellectually reasoning directly with the child is only one such solution. There are others. I merely think that violence is the recourse we turn to when the intellect has failed to find (or to even try to find) a resolution that works.
Ah yes, I see. Spanking is a low-brow solution for the intellectually lazy. A proletarian pastime no less. Intellectual Rube-Goldberg solutions when a simple one works are far more superior.
Ah yes, I see. Spanking is a low-brow solution for the intellectually lazy.
Sometimes. There are those that prefer to turn to violence as their first port of call rather than engaging their brain. I would of course not paint all people with such a brush but they certainly do exist.
Generally violence is the result of a break down in some level of communication. The reasons for such a break down can be many, from laziness, to a failure of imagination, to simply biases not allowing one side to listen to the other... the list goes on.
I simply feel that in any situation, whether political on a global scale, or whether on the smaller scale of a parenting instilling discipline in a child... that recourse to violence is the result of failure somewhere. There are usually other solutions. Violence is generally the easier one for some people.
^^^^ That's the extreme, of course... but I have seen lots of parents who are completely helpless during their children's temper tantrums. My children were not permitted to let their behavior get that far.
We had a lot of fun with our kids, we would do Mel Brooks or Monty Python skits with them on trips, we would play music and sing, we would try to top each other with smartazz comments when they were older, and we always had debates - political, social, theoretical - around the kitchen table during and after dinner, when we would all play rummy, spades, dominoes, or Trivial Pursuit together. Our kids were not fearful automatons; they were well-rounded individuals who learned self-respect and respect for others. They knew where the lines were, and did not cross them. That is what real parenting is, in our opinion.
Exactly. They are raised so they know that X is the point they stop at. If they cross X they pay the consequences. We didn't spank but I can promise you they did not enjoy the consequences.
Your family sounds a lot like ours. We were heavy on the personal discipline but that allowed the whole family to grow as a unit and be close. Because everyone knew what the rules were. We too had/have great times together. (And we attracted the kids who had no discipline in their own homes. Kids want structure.)
Children need a good swat every once in a while. I can count on one hand how many times my kids have gotten spankings (and my form of spanking is one swat). Doesn't mean that someone has less inteligence, is lazy, or is violent). My parents would take it a bit further than what I do but we clearly knew who was in charge and never disrespected them (you would never hear us say FU to our parents or tell them we weren't going to do certain things, we knew the consequences of not doing what we were told were greater than being sent to our room so we NEVER over stepped our boundaries). Remember there is something called verbal abuse too and I've seen this more and more when there is no spanking.
Are you suggesting that kids who aren't spanked grow up to be well adjusted adults with strong critical thinking skills?
Kids who aren't spanked grow up to be adults who were never given boundaries or consequences by their parents, parents who do their kids a grave disservice by failing at tough love. Strong critical thinking skills is neither here nor there.
I agree with some of the other posts. Some kids need a good swat every now and then and that's how my brother and I were raised. Yes we had the belt too, but did we turn out messed up? No. And as someone else said, some kids cannot be intellectually reasoned with. For example, do you think a child that's throwing a terrible temper tantrum can be reasoned with? No. I don't find spanking to be laziness. I find it effective actually. Worked for me and my brother.
Sometimes. There are those that prefer to turn to violence as their first port of call rather than engaging their brain. I would of course not paint all people with such a brush but they certainly do exist.
Generally violence is the result of a break down in some level of communication. The reasons for such a break down can be many, from laziness, to a failure of imagination, to simply biases not allowing one side to listen to the other... the list goes on.
I simply feel that in any situation, whether political on a global scale, or whether on the smaller scale of a parenting instilling discipline in a child... that recourse to violence is the result of failure somewhere. There are usually other solutions. Violence is generally the easier one for some people.
Ah, but the intellectual and communication solution requires two sides to participate and craft a mutually beneficial solution. If one side does not see the benefit of cooperating (whether that's becasue they want to enrich uranium or draw on the walls), then the other is forced to use their power to compel the desired behavior. Occasionally the more simplistic and "intellectual" devices fail to work (economic sanctions or time outs) and the side who wishes to end the bad behavior is forced to elevate their response (lob a couple cruise missiles or deliver a swat). If one is not willing to perhaps elevate to that type of response, I find many simply fallback to bribery to purchase the desired result (we'll give you already enriched uranium for your power plants and send you money or I'll take you to Toys R' Us and let you pick out something special).
Cruise missiles or swats, can show you mean business and intend to enforce your rules, but they aren't the first option and aren't needed in most situations. International aid or trips to the toy store result in simply reinforcing positive consequences for bad behavior.
I don't like to spank but I have done it on occasion and it seems to get a point across. Now that my daughter is 11, I never spank. Just a few days ago, she got really disrespectful in the car to me. I pulled over on the side of the road, got out of the car and opened her door, grasped her arm firmly and admonished her in a quiet but low voice that I was REALLY angry. That seemed to do the trick and got the point across. I think that my quiet rage was much more effective than a spank, lol.
My son on the other hand still needs the occasional swat on the butt. Been many many months though... I usually try to exhaust tother methods first. They both usually get the point before I have to resort to other means. I was very occasionally spanked as a kid by my parents but most of the time, reasoned with. I had the upmost respect for my mom and dad and would never think of disrespecting them. They were certainly not failures as parents for the occasional spanking.
Kudos to the parents that have never spanked and can intellectually engage your child's brain. That is some self control your child has and come control you have. I'm sure that you have never raised your voice in anger as well---that would be a break down in communication and possibly traumatize the child.....
I don't think spanking would traumatize a kid. Never heard of that happening and it sounds like some stupid way to Molly-coddle bad behavior.
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